You left a whole bunch of other stuff out when it comes to the discussion about secular states.
Yes I didn’t quite the entire Wikipedia page, but I think my quote should already point out the incompatibility between banning religious clothing and committing yourself to secularism.
Just to be clear: I brought up the idea of secularism in context of the state pushing religion on its people. I wouldn’t even use it as an argument in this case. The best argument to make here is that France as a member of the EU has committed itself to freedom of religion and thus should have no say in how people dress in their public and private life. There have been valid exceptions (such as banning covering your face at protests, banks etc.) for safety reasons, but this clearly doesn’t apply here.
Yes you’re right, imposing your views on others, does cross the line of a secular state. No one is asking that students have to cover their hair, it’s only demanded that they are allowed to do so. Equally crossing the line is the opposite, the state forcing it’s belief onto it’s people, by telling them they can’t express their religion in the form of religious clothing.
It goes beyond your private life and touches laws and values that are part of the state.
Apart from me mostly agreeing that the religious practices you mentioned suck, it doesn’t matter if it goes beyond your private life. Freedom of religion, me as you are free to express you religion in private **and public. **
You’re free to dislike it, but that’s what it is. Seeing people wearing Burkas, prayer beeds, crosses or whatever does not impact your freedom, even if it makes you uncomfortable.
As I already mentioned, laws are a different issue. Of course religion is not above the law and of there are valid security concerns such as covering your face in a bank or a protest, there is no reason why the law should interfere with religion. A person wearing a dress at school, is definetly no such concern.
So you think parents should be allowed to impose rules onto their kids because of religious beliefs and we shouldn’t do anything about it? That is where I disagree. Kids don’t cover their bodies because they decided they want to. It’s a sexist and deeply conservative rule imposed onto them by their religious nutjob parents.
I don’t care whether grownups decide to follow whatever type of religious practices they wish. But indoctrination of children with sexist beliefs shouldn’t be allowed.
That’s my point you are completely missing in your mission trying to paint me as some kind of intolerant islamophobe.
Yes I didn’t quite the entire Wikipedia page, but I think my quote should already point out the incompatibility between banning religious clothing and committing yourself to secularism. Just to be clear: I brought up the idea of secularism in context of the state pushing religion on its people. I wouldn’t even use it as an argument in this case. The best argument to make here is that France as a member of the EU has committed itself to freedom of religion and thus should have no say in how people dress in their public and private life. There have been valid exceptions (such as banning covering your face at protests, banks etc.) for safety reasons, but this clearly doesn’t apply here.
Yes you’re right, imposing your views on others, does cross the line of a secular state. No one is asking that students have to cover their hair, it’s only demanded that they are allowed to do so. Equally crossing the line is the opposite, the state forcing it’s belief onto it’s people, by telling them they can’t express their religion in the form of religious clothing.
Apart from me mostly agreeing that the religious practices you mentioned suck, it doesn’t matter if it goes beyond your private life. Freedom of religion, me as you are free to express you religion in private **and public. ** You’re free to dislike it, but that’s what it is. Seeing people wearing Burkas, prayer beeds, crosses or whatever does not impact your freedom, even if it makes you uncomfortable. As I already mentioned, laws are a different issue. Of course religion is not above the law and of there are valid security concerns such as covering your face in a bank or a protest, there is no reason why the law should interfere with religion. A person wearing a dress at school, is definetly no such concern.
So you think parents should be allowed to impose rules onto their kids because of religious beliefs and we shouldn’t do anything about it? That is where I disagree. Kids don’t cover their bodies because they decided they want to. It’s a sexist and deeply conservative rule imposed onto them by their religious nutjob parents.
I don’t care whether grownups decide to follow whatever type of religious practices they wish. But indoctrination of children with sexist beliefs shouldn’t be allowed.
That’s my point you are completely missing in your mission trying to paint me as some kind of intolerant islamophobe.