MAGA Republican Pledges “End of Democracy” to Rabid Cheers at CPAC
newrepublic.com
Republicans at CPAC 2024 are openly vowing to take down democracy.
  • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    1·
    9 months ago

    Originally you said by a descriptive definition it’s sarcasm when you do not mean it

    I’ve been consistent with this definition in my argument.

    which aligns with the dictionary definition by the way, so I’m still confused why you made that point at all

    You argument seemed to be about relying on dictionary definitions to determine what fascists are saying in their speeches. This choice lead you argument to the wrong conclusion.

    He says he doesn’t mean it, in his speech, verbatim.

    I’ve watched the CPAC speech three times now. Where does he say this?

    Your or my interpretation of his other actions and politics doesn’t matter to the question of whether he is being sarcastic.

    I think our interpretations could not be more important. Democracy and people’s lives depend on everyone’s ability to recognize fascism. A key part of that is analyzing the speaker’s actions and political views to determine what he actually wants and believes.

    • Muehe@lemmy.ml
      1·
      9 months ago

      Ok, fuck. Against my better judgement and because I’m sufficiently drunk, here I go again… Drunk text. You were warned.

      Let me start off with saying that I empathise with your point. I get what you are saying ultimately, I think. And if you see that on your Lemmy instance, I’m not the one downvoting you. I think your heart is in the right place.

      But I really don’t see your point about the sarcasm question. It’s not a question. It’s there. By definition. Why is this the hill you want to die on?

      I mean the rest of his speech is just crazy over crazy. The MAGAdonians? I mean come on it’s a goldmine for proving the fuck out of him being a fascist, but you are going for the one trap he lays you, where he is obviously being sarcastic. This is not going to dismantle his larger argument to anyone who might even vaguely relate to it, on the contrary. You need to do better.

      But you asked, so here I go again:

      He says he doesn’t mean it, in his speech, verbatim.

      I’ve watched the CPAC speech three times now. Where does he say this?

      He starts out with saying “most dangerous speech to democracy” in a mocking voice, then seriously “not just drain the swamp burn it to the ground”. The whole thing drips of sarcasm from the start. Money quotes right here.

      “Shining city on a hill, drain swamp, bla bla”.

      Then he lists three sources who he apparently suggests mis-cited him, Jeff Reid, Morning Joe, Mark Hamil. (?) He is mocking their accusations that he would “end democracy”. “We have to end it, that’s what the media told me”. This couldn’t be more clearly sarcastic.

      Then he starts to explain his plan to end democracy, which is a list of things Republicans have accused the Democrats of doing that they consider an attack on democracy. The stolen election check-list™ I have documented in another comment. Again clearly mocking the “other side”, hence sarcastic.

      He ends this part of the speech with saying:

      This is their “democracy” [doing air-quotes]. This is the regime we will overturn. They say democracy but they mean authoritarianism, and we know it.

      Again, clearly telling people that he is being sarcastic, outright, into their faces. He does not mean “real democracy™”, he means “fake democracy™”.

      It’s there. And I don’t get why you are trying to prove that it’s not, when there is so much bullshit in it that you could go for instead.

      Anyway, you will not find any luck in insisting somebody isn’t sarcastic when they most clearly are. This will convince nobody. You need to appeal to their better senses, like “real” Christianity, the American Dream, Human rights, or whatever it takes for them.

      I mean even he cleverly does this in his speech, extending an open hand to anybody and everybody, even the Swifties? Like they have a somewhat coherent narrative that people will follow, and you have to admit this guy is not bad at making propaganda for it. And IMHO you are falling for his taunt here. He challenged the public to quote him on this, because he could say it was sarcastic. Because he is.

      I’m mean don’t ask me how to stop the fucking fascist in the end. Some relatively influential German politician just proposed what essentially amounts to forced labour for all immigrants for several months to horrendous “wages”, like <1$/h wages. In fucking Germany! The gall! So yeah, I’m not really sure what to do about it either.

      • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        1·
        9 months ago

        Ok, fuck. Against my better judgement and because I’m sufficiently drunk, here I go again… Drunk text. You were warned.

        If this is what drinking and texting produces, then more people on social media should be drinking.

        This is their “democracy” [doing air-quotes]. This is the regime we will overturn. They say democracy but they mean authoritarianism, and we know it.

        Again, clearly telling people that he is being sarcastic, outright, into their faces. He does not mean “real democracy™”, he means “fake democracy™”.

        This is his shallow lie, where he mischaracterizes democracy and says it authoritarian. In usual Republican double speak he makes his authoritarian takeover sound like a movement for ensuring freedoms when it most assuredly will take them away. He really believes that the Democrats have done all of the things or that the things they’ve actually done are harmful as listed in his joke. The whole joke boils down to, “no you”, with an alternate universe worth of lies.

        Then he lists three sources who he apparently suggests mis-cited him, Jeff Reid, Morning Joe, Mark Hamil. (?) He is mocking their accusations that he would “end democracy”. “We have to end it, that’s what the media told me”. This couldn’t be more clearly sarcastic.

        It would be sarcastic if he wanted to preserve democracy. He wants to destroy democracy. So it’s not sarcastic. His goal is a christofascist dictatorship.

        Anyway, you will not find any luck in insisting somebody isn’t sarcastic when they most clearly are. This will convince nobody. You need to appeal to their better senses, like “real” Christianity, the American Dream, Human rights, or whatever it takes for them.

        I can only hope you’re wrong. There is really nothing else to say to people at this point except that the Republicans mean it when they say want to destroy democracy. If they win in November, the Republicans are planning on dismantling our democracy by replacing nonpartisan members of the executive branch with partisan yes men, as detailed in Project 2025. They may not hold elections at all, but if they do, there won’t be many people to run against them since they are undoubtedly going to jail political opponents. The amount of harm Trump can do in the next four years really isn’t worth thinking about because there isn’t a hard limit. He wants to use the Insurrection Act to declare martial law and deploy the military in American cities on day 1. The only way to stop these fascists is to out vote them, until someone can figure out a vaccine for self-destructive ideologies. edit: typos