Well I’m hopping around… again. I thought I had a good stable setup going but then something happens upstream that goes against what I want/believe in (looking at you RedHat) and I’m back on the hunt again.
I thought about trying out a Debian based distro but then I thought “why don’t I just use Debian itself (Sid, not stable/Bookworm)”.
Most if not all gaming software have a way to be installed on Debian so I don’t think that could be an issue.
Is anyone else using Sid? Am I missing something by not going with a gaming focused distro??
This looks like a detailed write up. I need to sit down and digest this information (currently out and about). I’ll come back to you with questions I’m sure.
Most of it is relating to getting the stability benefits of Debian Stable while keeping your system modern like Sid (not necessarily just for gaming). Keep in mind that Sid is inherently volatile/unstable and a lot more prone to breakage, so I wouldn’t recommend going that route unless you feel you have a real usecase, as you might find yourself needing to manually fix problems every so often on a Sid install. For a typical gaming workload I don’t feel like Sid is required, and with just a couple tweaks (Flatpak Steam/Lutris + newer kernel version mainly) you can get Stable to perform the same role cleanly. You can always upgrade into Sid later if you feel like you really can’t handle Stable’s older native packages.
Also, idk if it was explicit enough but the point of the original post is that yes, Debian is great for gaming, even with Stable. I would base your distro decision on literally any factor besides gaming, because if Debian Stable can do it then every distro can do it. You mentioned annoyance with Red Hat in your original post, so a strong selling point of Debian is that it’s a community distro. Arch Linux is also a great community distro that’s bleeding edge like Debian Sid.
Debian is generally easy to use but it’s still a tiny bit more DIY than most popular distros - if you find Debian too annoying to set up you can always try Linux Mint/Linux Mint Debian Edition, which is a very reputable Debian-based distro.
Very valid points. Since the RedHat announcement, I’ve migrated all my home servers to Debian so I thought “why not switch over my gaming rig as well”. As I thought about which district to use I came to the realization that I don’t want another situation where I’m using a distro based on another distro and that other distro decides to do something that affects the distro I’m using and blah blah. So then that leaves me with using the base (Debian, Arch, etc.) to avoid what I just mentioned.
I’ve been using Linux for quite some time so I can usually handle some break/fix. I haven’t tried Linux Mint yet but again, I rather just go straight to the base and go from there.
Still want to read your post tho. I’ve got Sid setup and ready to go and I do want to see how much breakage it introduces as I continue to use it. If it’s a bit too much, I’ll give stable a try.
Yeah this is generally where I’m at as well. There’s no point tying yourself indefinitely to a downstream distro/maintainer because they configured some stuff that takes 1-3 hours to do yourself. Downstream distros may also break some stuff or configure things poorly, so it’s just better to get it from upstream and follow their guidance.
Linux Mint gets a special mention even though it’s derivative, just because it’s a solid and reputable distro with a long history of being sane and easy to use. If I’m recommending Linux to a new person they always get Linux Mint as an answer.
Out of curiosity, are you running Steam/Proton/etc on Flatpaks because the normal packages are too outdated in stable or because the dependencies for them are too outdated?
Also are you not running into issues where the flatpaks can’t talk to each other? For example, installing a proton version on the steam path. Since flatpaks are isolated and have limited access to the system, wouldn’t I run into issues there?
I run Flatpaks for gaming mainly because I want cutting edge Mesa (which is inherently used while running games from Flatpaks). It’s not necessary right now since Bookworm was just released and Mesa is not that old, but as a long-term plan I think this is more consistent. I don’t think Steam will have a problem keeping up to date without Flatpak, but Lutris is probably best kept cutting-edge via external Deb repo or Flatpak. In general Flatpaks are pretty terrific and I recommend using them for a lot of things nowadays anyway (I even used a lot of them on Arch Linux). There’s really no performance cost anymore, and most Flatpaks are configured seamlessly from the start so you don’t need to worry much about access issues.
Flatpaks can generally access anything they want, but you might have to allow that access manually, depending on how the Flatpak is initially configured (Flatseal makes this super easy). Usually this just means you’ll need to allow read-only or read/write access to specific directories where your personal files live. The biggest problem that Flatpaks have is that they absolutely can’t access
/usr(and/usr/binby extension), and this can make things like runningmangohud %command%orstrangle 60 %command%more or less impossible. You can actually still access stuff via/run/host/usr/binfrom inside a Flatpak if you give it host permissions but things run this way usually get very confused and don’t work correctly. You can also try to use flatpak-spawn to do some interesting things from within the “sandbox”, but its usecases are limited in my experience. Notably you can cut off internet access from a game that’s being run, butflatpak-spawnalso currently has a bug/oversight which wipes out the environment variables for the spawned process, which usually causes some havoc.There are also “portals” that hook into Flatpak, which I don’t know nearly enough about. If you use KDE for example, when you “open” a file using a Flatpak’d program, KDE will swap in a native file dialog and let you pick a file from anywhere even if the Flatpak doesn’t have access, and then it grants a temporary one-time access to that file to the program. For example I disallow Discord from accessing practically everything, but I can still upload files from anywhere on my system to a Discord channel with the KDE file portal.
In terms of Proton versions and Wine versions etc, there’s no issues here. I usually use ProtonUp-Qt to install different versions, and Steam/Lutris/Bottles will have no issues accessing these even if they’re Flatpak’d.
Edit: Also, you can theme Flatpaks like this. You’ll need your system themes to be installed to
~/.themesand~/.iconsin order for Flatpak programs to access them, and then you can set default global overrides for the theming environment variables and access to~/.themesetc. using Flatseal. This will allow all programs to use your themes without individual configuration.Okay, on this thread alone a lot of people are suggesting to go stable (including yourself) so now I’m thinking you guys must know something I don’t. Truthfully, I only really need a few things for the games that I run like a recent kernel (XanMod maybe?) Wine staging, steam, nvidia drivers, lutris, bottles and proton (through ProtonUp-Qt). As long as I can run those things on recent versions, I think going stable would be fine too.
The advent of Flatpaks have really made Debian Stable into a serious contender for desktop Linux, and Debian 12 is a remarkably good release even by Debian’s standards. Bookworm has received a lot of praise since its release, and I think people (like myself) are starting to reconsider what a desktop Linux can look like.
It does take a little bit of extra setup to get more cutting-edge stuff for the applications you use most often, but after sourcing everything and stuffing all the individual updating mechanisms into an update script, you’ll get the best of both worlds - stable base and rolling user applications. If nothing else you should try Stable first before resorting to Sid - you may be inheriting Sid’s volatility without a proper usecase. If you don’t run Debian Stable or Debian Sid/Arch Linux, you’ll probably want to go somewhere in the middle like OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, which is cutting-edge with extensive testing baked-in.
I’m going to give stable a try and see how far I get with gaming and go from there. I’ve never run straight Debian as a desktop it’s always been on servers so my experience there is limited.
I’m curious as to the update script you are talking about. Care to point me to an example? Wouldn’t flatpak update do the trick for everything running in flatpaks? And apt update/upgrade for the rest?
Also a very valid point!
How do you manage kernel updates when running a custom kernel? Do you have to regularly check for security patches that you need to apply? It seems like something you could easily forget about without the benefit of an auto-update checker reminding you.
I’m not sure what type of auto-update checker you’re referring to but with Xanmod it’s still installed from a Debian repo and updates with the rest of your system, so if you use e.g. KDE’s Discover software center it will still alert you when it finds that the Xanmod kernel can be updated. Personally I just update everything whenever I reboot my system and at least once a week otherwise. There is usually nothing to update with Debian, so this isn’t a big deal.
As for security patches I might need extra guidance on that - since Xanmod is inherently built from mainline Linux source I don’t think it needs security patches? Kernels like LTS Linux or Debian Stable’s still want the newest security patches from new kernel source code, so those have to be manually extracted from the newer kernel source and backported into the old codebase. With something like Xanmod there’s nothing to backport because it’s always got the newest source and all the current security updates. You can think of Xanmod like
linux-zenon Arch Linux - it’s just a fork of the original kernel with a couple extra tunings.Edit: Actually from my understanding,
linux-zenfrom Arch Linux is equivalent to the Liquorix kernel, if you want to use that instead of Xanmod. I don’t really have a strong preference between the two.I see what you mean, thanks. I had assumed you would be compiling it from source yourself and for some reason it didn’t occur to me that there are separate repos for alternate kernels.