It happens everywhere, with increasing frequency. Depending on who’s calling for killing who, it’s either praised or giggled at or condemned. Off the top of my head…
Who is he calling for the marines to kill? I don’t see it in the lyrics at all. Sure, it talks about war (it’s essentially a hardcore version of the Star Spangled Banner, which talks about bombing). And the song was never as big as the song in the article. Additionally, this was over 20 years ago, which is a lot of time to change. That’s like saying that people can’t be upset at other countries for discriminating against LGBTQ+ people because American TV in the early 2000’s had jokes at their expense. Things change.
He’s calling for the killing of Iraqis, you know people in Iraq. You know, those innocent civilians the American government lied about having weapons of mass destruction. Then Toby Keith’s dream came true and the US set about levelling their land and killing millions of Iraqis.
Why the fuck does 20 years matter? Your statement did not mention a timeline. Show some integrity.
Where does he even say that? Or are you one of those people that say “look at what I think was implied”? I looked through the lyrics, where does it call for killing people in Iraq? My statement didn’t mention a timeline because I had no idea idiots like you were going to come in with no point other than country music is bad. You’re not contributing anything to the conversation about the actual post, like any American you’ve made this all about yourself.
I don’t even understand what your point is. Are you okay with the song in the article because there’s some pretty batshit insane country songs? What the fuck do you mean show some integrity? You came up in here and just said went ‘nuh uh, America bad!’. What’s your point? How does this relate to the advocating of killing singers who are of Arabic decent? Do you have anything so actually say here other than whataboutism?
Like others who have responded I’ve simply pointed out an example that refutes your statement. You don’t seem to be capable of even opening the smallest sliver of your mind to the possibility that anyone else might have a rational different perspective on this matter. It’s tiresome.
Where does he even say that? Or are you one of those people that say “look at what I think was implied”? I looked through the lyrics, where does it call for killing people in Iraq? My statement didn’t mention a timeline because I had no idea idiots like you were going to come in with no point other than country music is bad. You’re not contributing anything to the conversation about the actual post, like any American you’ve made this all about yourself.
What the fuck are you trying to prove? I’ve waisted so much time talking with you fucking dolts that aren’t even talking about this article.
20 years is a lot of time for a 20 year old, right?
The bigger picture is that 20 years is still very recent history.
That’s like saying that people can’t be upset at other countries for discriminating against LGBTQ+ people because American TV in the early 2000’s had jokes at their expense
Yeah. It is. The fact the US still has TV shows that make those jokes, the very fact that morality is relative to the US is sort of the problem here. At best it is imperialism. At worst it is rank hypocrisy.
Your anti-America glasses are making you miss the point so fucking hard there’s no point trying to talk to you. But just know, countries other than USA can be bad too. You don’t need to use the USA as a litmus test for if something is right.
How about you read the lyrics and see that for all of the patriotic bluster, they don’t even say a group or nation that of people should be on the receiving end of the requested military force. Just that they should go do the thing somewhere to the people who hit first. You’re comparing that to someone calling out specific people for death.
I hope you can see why your comparison immediately falls apart.
calling for the military to go and kill a citizen of another country
Are Iraqis in Iraq not citizens of another country?
Have you read the lyrics? Do you struggle with understanding context?
Oh, and justice will be served and the battle will rage
This big dog will fight when you rattle his cage
And you’ll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
‘Cause we’ll put a boot in your ass
It’s the American way
Hey Uncle Sam, put your name at the top of his list
And the Statue of Liberty started shakin’ her fist
And the eagle will fly it’s gonna be hell
When you hear mother freedom start ringin’ her bell
And it’ll feel like the whole wide world is raining down on you
Oh, brought to you courtesy of the red white and blue
I’m picking Trump ones because he’s a big, easy target & the examples are easily found. Not because I endorse Trump. It also showcases how extreme violence is given a platform, praised. But there are plenty more examples just a Google search away.
So it’s fine for people to depict killing a POTUS all the time, and other people you don’t like. That’s acceptable. Kill the white farmers in South Africa, after all, they’re part of an oppressor class & they deserve it. SHOOT to KILL. But calling for the death of 3 random people is a line too far, I guess? 🤨
Your qualms with this are just the result of a culture with no guardrails, no moral foundation. Human life isn’t considered sacred. We tolerate & celebrate depictions of death all the time. This only encourages senseless mass shootings, violence.
You’re really looking for a straw man argument for this, and I don’t even understand why. The release and reception of this song is vile, there is no need to try and grandstand and go “actually…”
You’re allowed to say something is fucked up without having to mention everything else fucked up and discuss which is more fucked up. You’re wasting energy on the stupidest thing.
We can understand why that’s like, not a very concrete justification to be against espousing violence, right? I also find it weird, right, that we’re doing this step-around thing, where you’re calling everyone out for the hypocrisy of, oh, well, people are against this violence, but they’re not against this violence? Have you maybe considered that the two forms of violence are distinct? Perhaps that the two forms of violence are actually not similar? That people have reasons for, say, wanting violence against one party, but not another?
That’s what they’re commenting about. You say “it’s either all okay or none of it’s okay” because it encourages violence, right, but, I am giving you an opportunity to show your work, when it comes to this very basic claim, upon which rests the rest of your argument.
“shot in the head” that’s misrepresentation big time. He shoots a gun towards the clowns head but it’s one of those gag guns with a flag coming out with the word “bang” on it… Which rhymes with Trump being depicted as a clown. It’s far more metaphorical than the other examples and you need to be pretty fucking dense to see it as a call for violence against Trump or anyone else.
The Israeli one and the South African ones are in my opinion comparable in that they both call for explicit violence and their only defense is basically “it’s art, I can do what I want”
Call to violence might be a stretch. However, I think it’s either incredibly naive or incredibly dishonest to overlook the depiction of a gun, pointed at a person, the trigger being pulled, the gun going bang, and the president/clown flinching in response.
You only point a gun at something if you intend to shoot it, possibly kill it. There is no exception.
It is indeed an artistic expression & not real, but the imagery is unmistakable. He casually plays out this scene & displays it to the world, basically saying, “Yeah, if this happened…I’m totally okay with this. I put this in my rap videos. No big deal.”
And I think a lot of people on Lemmy feel the same way about Trump.
You’re right, it’s not a national thing, but it’s not okay. The one with Snoop Dogg is a bit different though, because Trump is also inciting violence, so he made himself a legitimate target for responses like that.
Why do you consider Hamas not inciting violence? And the many Palestinians and pro-palestinian protestors who openly ask to eradicate Israel and Israelis, Jews and so on?
It happens everywhere, with increasing frequency. Depending on who’s calling for killing who, it’s either praised or giggled at or condemned. Off the top of my head…
Snoop Dogg had a mock execution of Trump, where he shot a Trump caricature clown in the head
In South Africa, there are prominent groups dancing around & chanting, “Kill the Boer! The farmer! SHOOT to KILL!! Brrrrrrrap!” But this has been justified because it’s “an old cultural chant”, totally not a threat. Malema has been called out for this, and he has reassured everyone, “We Have Not Called For The Killing Of White People… At Least For Now” But he “cannot ‘guarantee’ what will happen in the future”.
These aren’t really apt comparisons. None of the them are calling for the military to go and kill a citizen of another country.
Toby Keith : Courtesy of the Red White and Blue - https://youtu.be/ruNrdmjcNTc?si=DmXKSLPI2SHVoQM-
There’s plenty more. Or are you just being obtuse on purpose?
Who is he calling for the marines to kill? I don’t see it in the lyrics at all. Sure, it talks about war (it’s essentially a hardcore version of the Star Spangled Banner, which talks about bombing). And the song was never as big as the song in the article. Additionally, this was over 20 years ago, which is a lot of time to change. That’s like saying that people can’t be upset at other countries for discriminating against LGBTQ+ people because American TV in the early 2000’s had jokes at their expense. Things change.
He’s calling for the killing of Iraqis, you know people in Iraq. You know, those innocent civilians the American government lied about having weapons of mass destruction. Then Toby Keith’s dream came true and the US set about levelling their land and killing millions of Iraqis.
Why the fuck does 20 years matter? Your statement did not mention a timeline. Show some integrity.
Where does he even say that? Or are you one of those people that say “look at what I think was implied”? I looked through the lyrics, where does it call for killing people in Iraq? My statement didn’t mention a timeline because I had no idea idiots like you were going to come in with no point other than country music is bad. You’re not contributing anything to the conversation about the actual post, like any American you’ve made this all about yourself.
I don’t even understand what your point is. Are you okay with the song in the article because there’s some pretty batshit insane country songs? What the fuck do you mean show some integrity? You came up in here and just said went ‘nuh uh, America bad!’. What’s your point? How does this relate to the advocating of killing singers who are of Arabic decent? Do you have anything so actually say here other than whataboutism?
Like others who have responded I’ve simply pointed out an example that refutes your statement. You don’t seem to be capable of even opening the smallest sliver of your mind to the possibility that anyone else might have a rational different perspective on this matter. It’s tiresome.
Where does he even say that? Or are you one of those people that say “look at what I think was implied”? I looked through the lyrics, where does it call for killing people in Iraq? My statement didn’t mention a timeline because I had no idea idiots like you were going to come in with no point other than country music is bad. You’re not contributing anything to the conversation about the actual post, like any American you’ve made this all about yourself.
What the fuck are you trying to prove? I’ve waisted so much time talking with you fucking dolts that aren’t even talking about this article.
I’m not American. You might want to think about your assumptions and what they do to your ability to process information, particularly feedback.
Ah, The international defence of “bygones”.
20 years is a lot of time for a 20 year old, right?
The bigger picture is that 20 years is still very recent history.
Yeah. It is. The fact the US still has TV shows that make those jokes, the very fact that morality is relative to the US is sort of the problem here. At best it is imperialism. At worst it is rank hypocrisy.
Your anti-America glasses are making you miss the point so fucking hard there’s no point trying to talk to you. But just know, countries other than USA can be bad too. You don’t need to use the USA as a litmus test for if something is right.
How about you read the lyrics and see that for all of the patriotic bluster, they don’t even say a group or nation that of people should be on the receiving end of the requested military force. Just that they should go do the thing somewhere to the people who hit first. You’re comparing that to someone calling out specific people for death.
I hope you can see why your comparison immediately falls apart.
In your own words:-
Are Iraqis in Iraq not citizens of another country?
Have you read the lyrics? Do you struggle with understanding context?
None of it is okay. It encourages violence, it desensitizes us, we see a comedian triumphantly holding up a bloodied, decapitated POTUS head with a look of cold indifference on her face and we say, "Oh, it’s okay. It’s not a call to violence specifically, it’s just artistic expression.
I’m picking Trump ones because he’s a big, easy target & the examples are easily found. Not because I endorse Trump. It also showcases how extreme violence is given a platform, praised. But there are plenty more examples just a Google search away.
So it’s fine for people to depict killing a POTUS all the time, and other people you don’t like. That’s acceptable. Kill the white farmers in South Africa, after all, they’re part of an oppressor class & they deserve it. SHOOT to KILL. But calling for the death of 3 random people is a line too far, I guess? 🤨
Your qualms with this are just the result of a culture with no guardrails, no moral foundation. Human life isn’t considered sacred. We tolerate & celebrate depictions of death all the time. This only encourages senseless mass shootings, violence.
You’re really looking for a straw man argument for this, and I don’t even understand why. The release and reception of this song is vile, there is no need to try and grandstand and go “actually…”
You’re allowed to say something is fucked up without having to mention everything else fucked up and discuss which is more fucked up. You’re wasting energy on the stupidest thing.
You’re dead / You’re canceled!
(That’s my only contribution, noting she received death threats & hatred, carry on otherwise I just remembered that one)
We can understand why that’s like, not a very concrete justification to be against espousing violence, right? I also find it weird, right, that we’re doing this step-around thing, where you’re calling everyone out for the hypocrisy of, oh, well, people are against this violence, but they’re not against this violence? Have you maybe considered that the two forms of violence are distinct? Perhaps that the two forms of violence are actually not similar? That people have reasons for, say, wanting violence against one party, but not another?
That’s what they’re commenting about. You say “it’s either all okay or none of it’s okay” because it encourages violence, right, but, I am giving you an opportunity to show your work, when it comes to this very basic claim, upon which rests the rest of your argument.
No, they’re just indulging in a little stochastic terrorism. As a treat.
“shot in the head” that’s misrepresentation big time. He shoots a gun towards the clowns head but it’s one of those gag guns with a flag coming out with the word “bang” on it… Which rhymes with Trump being depicted as a clown. It’s far more metaphorical than the other examples and you need to be pretty fucking dense to see it as a call for violence against Trump or anyone else.
The Israeli one and the South African ones are in my opinion comparable in that they both call for explicit violence and their only defense is basically “it’s art, I can do what I want”
Call to violence might be a stretch. However, I think it’s either incredibly naive or incredibly dishonest to overlook the depiction of a gun, pointed at a person, the trigger being pulled, the gun going bang, and the president/clown flinching in response.
You only point a gun at something if you intend to shoot it, possibly kill it. There is no exception.
It is indeed an artistic expression & not real, but the imagery is unmistakable. He casually plays out this scene & displays it to the world, basically saying, “Yeah, if this happened…I’m totally okay with this. I put this in my rap videos. No big deal.”
And I think a lot of people on Lemmy feel the same way about Trump.
You’re right, it’s not a national thing, but it’s not okay. The one with Snoop Dogg is a bit different though, because Trump is also inciting violence, so he made himself a legitimate target for responses like that.
Why do you consider Hamas not inciting violence? And the many Palestinians and pro-palestinian protestors who openly ask to eradicate Israel and Israelis, Jews and so on?
Based GWAR cutting off Bush’s head onstage and spraying us all with blood
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Snoop Dogg had a mock execution of Trump, where he shot a Trump caricature clown in the head
In South Africa, there are prominent groups dancing around & chanting, “Kill the Boer! The farmer! SHOOT to KILL!! Brrrrrrrap!”
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