I apologise if this is the wrong community to post this in, I wasn’t sure which one was ideal.
I’m suffering a difficult decision of choosing between a Framework laptop or a Macbook Air (M1, 2020). I really like the ethical principles of Framework, i.e. you actually own it and can repair it any time, leading to an increased longevity. At the same time, I have heard people claim Macbook is superior in almost all aspects (especially battery life).
I know both Apple and Microsoft are greedy CorpGiants, but seeing as I have an iPhone, I figure it would be easier using a Mac? But then again, the prices really are not worth it, especially considering it costs a lot to repair them. I have 0 experience with Linux, and this computer will be used at school, so I suppose it stands between macOS and Windows.
I guess I just want some advice? Or some guidance and comparisons. Is 8GB enough for a Framework laptop? The 16GB version costs nearly as much as the Mac I’m looking at, hence my hesitance. If anybody has some experience using Framework and / or Macbook, I would love to hear about it. What are some pros and cons? Which people are better off with FW and Mac respectively?
Thank you!
*Edit, forgot to mention: I need a Swedish keyboard on the computer, and Framework apparently only offers English. This is the largest obstacle preventing me from leaning towards FW.
You can always upgrade the memory, and storage of the framework laptop, so you can start with the 8GB and then pick up more pretty cheap later.
One of the best things about the framework is that you don’t have to pay for a package upgrade of parts if all you need is just one thing to upgrade.
Also, when you do need to update something, you can just get a new motherboard and memory, and not have to buy a whole new laptop.
Honestly, just get the framework, unless there’s a real reason you need a Mac.
Thanks for this comment! Everybody on Reddit says to get Macbook instead of Framework, so it’s nice to have some differing opinions.
If you want to be the “cool guy” then macbook is your choice, it will cost more and repair is risky to be done by anyone except apple himself.
If you want to have a laptop, that is easy to repair,upgrade and is cheap but powerfull then Framework laptop.
On macbook you are locked into apple, you cant upgrade, you can only get support by apple and most of the time third party stuff doesnt work right on macbook. On Framework laptop you are more open to do anything, like upgrading, switching OS if windows isnt right for you. Framework is a lot more open and listens to the community.
I wouldn’t call the Framework “cheap”. Its price is higher than other similarly-specced laptops. But in the long term you can save money by not having to buy a whole new laptop when it breaks or becomes obsolete. You can even take your old mainboard out and repurpose it as something else.
The MacBook is expensive to buy and has no upgrade path. macOS is sleek and well-designed and the M3 is a very capable CPU but saving money is not a thing you can expect to do here.
Both are reasonable choices depending on what your use case is.
Its relative to a macbook cheap, of course it does not have best speccs-price ratio.
You can also update the processor when they release new parts.
And you don’t have to run Windows, put a nice flavour of Linux on it for that fast feeling. Or rip everything out of Windows with something like the AME wizard.
8GB is not enough memory these days. But you can always add memory later.
True on Framework (add more later), not on MacBook Air. But even though my main machine now has 64GB, I found my first-gen MacBook Air (2020) was great with 16GB. However, depends what you need to throw at it.
I have the m1 macbook air, and its wonderfully performant and long battery life for how I use it… mostly just word-processing and web-browsing.
But the repair concerns are legit, when I decided to get the macbook, I decided I was going to play apples game and opted to get their service plan. I’ve had apple care+ on a tablet before and their service is great when you don’t have to pay their ridiculous repair fees. So at a rate of $100 per year, I’m essentially leasing my laptop after I bought it. I have it automatically backed up to my home server, in the event that one of their stupid engineering designs destroys my data (See Louis Rossmann videos).
Idk if I’d ever really recommend anyone get a macbook if they don’t need to, personally, the battery life and standby time are just killer features for me. I have ADHD, and frequently forget to charge my laptop… if I’m not on my meds and I pick up my laptop to do something and its dead… I’m not going to do that thing. With the macbook, I make next to no conscious effort to keep it charged. If it’s under ~20% and I happen to be near a charger, I’ll charge it. And thats the extent of me managing the battery.
My wife on the other hand, her windows machine (and most seem to have this problem as I understand) is always dead. She’s resorted to putting it into full hybernation mode (significantly slower to wake up) and even then, it somehow seems to still lose quite a bit of battery in between uses.
Aside from that, its light, small, its sturdy. I use windows for work and for gaming on my desktop, so I’ve got not strong aversion to it, its pretty much just the battery life and standby thats the killer feature for me. So… yeah, thats my take. If the battery situation isn’t a big deal for you, go for the framework. They seem like a solid company, making solid laptops, that are easily and affordably repairable and upgradable.
But the repair concerns are legit
Speaking as someone who has disassembled multiple Macbook Airs from multiple generations: Fuck working on Macbook Airs, and Macs in general.
I personally will never buy an Apple product at any price for any purpose, for a multitude of reasons. My preferences aside, if you ever want to work on your own machine Apple is objectively the wrong answer. OP is really looking at two machines that are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum, here.
Do people really do home repair or upgraded on laptops in 2024 though? Desktops sure, but I haven’t found laptops to be particularly amenable to home upgrade since the early 2000s.
Frameworks yes, but that’s pretty much the only ones you can nowadays. I do little things like replace the screen or barrel jacks on my family’s laptops, but that’s about all you can do.
Never mind upgrading, if you need to repair your Macbook – replace a busted screen, swap out one of their famously shitty keyboards or trackpads, etc. – you’re in for a rough time.
If you’re considering a framework laptop I can’t imagine you’d want to be stuck on Apple software/silicon.
Are they comparable in price? What is it that you actually do with your computer?
I will be studying cyber security where we will do some script programming (but no heavy programming at all), otherwise I use it to stream movies online and watch Youtube. That’s pretty much what I do with my current school-prescribed computer.
Get a refurb thinkpad(x1 carbon gen7 ish maybe) and run Linux if your in to cybersecurity.
Just a note that virtualization is not available on Apple silicon (M1+) yet, so if you plan on running VMs like Kali, it won’t be possible.
I’ve worked on dev tooling in a fairly large company. Especially for cyber security, do not get a Mac. A lot of the tools are just different enough on a Mac that they will make your life much harder.
According to https://www.notebookcheck.net/ , a framework 13 with a Ryzen 7840U will run out of battery 22% faster than the macbook but will outperform the macbook by 85% on some benchmarks. I wouldn’t pick the mac.
Would you recommend the Intel or AMD version? I’m not very updated on what distinguishes the AMD.
AMD is as fast in cpu, faster in GPU, and has(much) better battery life. At least until framework gets meteor lake
You’re at a time with high risk of laptop tragedies so repairability is an important factor. Framework will be cheaper/easier to repair yourself. However, if you have no interest in DIYing and instead have money to burn to pay for fixes (or a service plan), the mac would be a better option due to the Apple Stores everywhere. A typical repair place won’t have familiarity with framework (not that it’s particularly exotic) and can be a lot more hit or miss than Apple.
Also make sure you consider a few years down the line when it comes to batteries.
I think the framework one is better because you can get a cheaper version now and upgrade it in time. I don’t know the specific specs of both laptops, but Apple products are usually overpriced, so look at all specs, the same price might not be the same specs, e.g. CPU might be weaker or no dedicated GPU.
That being said I understand where the love for Apple comes from, their products are very slick and because they control both hardware and software they can get some heavy optimisations.
Finally if you care about privacy enough to question getting a Mac, you should give Linux a try, it’s not hard, most people suffer for trying to do things the windows way, but you would already have suffered that if you went with a Mac.
I think you want the MacBook. I like the ethical principles behind Framework too, but they come with a learning curve. You might only save money if you fix it yourself, are you willing to learn to do that? It will have to run Windows, do you know whether it will run Windows 11, will you have you install and configure it yourself, if so do you know how to do that?
Meanwhile, if you buy a MacBook it will last a good seven or eight years before you need to replace it, at least if you get the 16 GB of RAM (but maybe 8 is enough, 8 has been the standard for like a decade already, maybe software developers finally reached the point where their objective is to do more with less). Sure sometimes Apple comes up with bad hardware like the butterfly-switch keyboard but if you’re getting hardware that’s basically the same as last year check out the news and reviews, anything that bad and people will be talking about it. Also if you buy a MacBook, Apple tries its best that everything just works. The easiest learning curve there is. You may pay a premium in price up front but over seven or eight years you might end up spending less.
For the first year of ownership, if it ever has a problem (that wasn’t clearly caused by you dropping it) you can make an appointment to drop it off at an Apple Store and just pick it up when they fix it. You can buy AppleCare to extend that year into three years. If you’re a resident college student your school’s computer support center might be an authorized repair center and fix it. With a MacBook you are unlikely to incur any repair costs ever so long as you don’t drop the damn thing.
So you have to decide what sort of person you are. I’ve been building and taking apart computers for years, I’ve been a Linux user since 1999, and sometimes I want a project like a Framework to tinker with, but sometimes (especially when I went to college) I want something dependable that just works without having to fuss with it, and that’s Apple. That’s what you’re ultimately choosing, and whether that’s worth the (up-front, at least) price premium.
btw you can get apple care indefinitely if you pay annually. I’ve decided throught his mechanism I’ll essentially lease my macbook. Paying $100/year for the peace of mind that they’ll fix anything thats wrong with the laptop until I decide to ditch it. Its probably worth keeping an eye on the used market to decide when its economically optimal to just drop the applecare and just replace the laptop in the event of it needing to be repaired.
Worth noting, you may have to be a stern self-advocate to get certain things fixed because they will sometimes pull some bullshit excuse that its not covered under applecare/warranty because of xyz, and xyz isn’t even true (see Louis Rossmann / CBC News videos)
So you pay extra for your laptop, then pay for another third of a laptop or so, before you have to fight with somebody on the phone to get what you paid for? That’s certainly a plan.
See my other comment for more context, I’m not saying it’s a good thing, or advocating for people to do it, but it is what I do… for reasons.
Fair enough. Have a good day Internet Friend
No YOU’RE an internet friend!
You nailed it here. It’s all about the willingness of the user to maintain it.
The integration part from OP: I don’t understand why anybody wants to be locked into a single ecosystem. If the company pivots/does something weird, you have a LOT of history you have to untangle. Google for instance.
But in spite of that, Macs just work without fuss. And I say this as a mac hater for years, and now forced to use one for work.
On the integration bit, I love that I can copy a URL on my phone and paste it into my browser on my Mac. I love that I can copy a meme on my Mac and paste it into a messaging app on my phone.
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I will be studying cyber security and network infrastructure with some limited script programming. I understand it is far easier to use Windows if you study in engineering.
I am interested in Linux, but seeing as Microsoft is very closed-off (cannot use installed versions of Microsoft365), I am a bit unsure if I want to fully commit to it. I am absolutely willing to try running it and getting a feel of it, though.
What does the process look like when you install Windows on your own? Is it difficult / costly?
You basically have a usb-stick with the windows installer… stick it it… boot from it (usually F12 or F8 at start brings um the menu)… and follow the steps on the screen… and thats it.
But if you are unsure you can also pay like 20 or 30$ for some shop to do it for you.deleted by creator
I am aware of that, I was just saying.
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Look at an older year of framework too
My place of work uses macs at work, I like them though I’m fairly platform agnostic. I have windows PCs for home theater use, and Linux laptops for personal use. I like macbooks but loath the complete lack of upgradability. We have so many old macs that just get scrapped. PCs are no different, but this is my workplace. If you have to buy a laptop, buy a used one and wipe it or buy a framework. Framework laptops should be upgradable for close to a decade by their vision. That’s without third party support. Support a vision for a consumer rights future or buy used IMO.
Framework: Repairable MacBook: Not Repairable
Winner: Framework.
I am not very familiar with framework but I did switch from macbooks to a dell gaming laptop years ago and I am so glad I did.
The macs are ridiculously expensive, and even if you break just the charger it costs a lot to replace. My laptop now I was able to get for nearly half the price and it runs games and programs that I used in college better than the mac ever could.
Every mac I ever owned completely died in 4-6 years of purchase. They’re basically guaranteed to not last a long time. My guess is you’re better off with getting a framework
There are plenty of reasons not to like apple products, but the 4-6 years for macbooks is unheard of. There’s a reason I was able to sell my 2015 macbook for 60% of its purchase price in 2020. They keep chugging along, built physically strong, with great battery management that means it doesn’t degrade much over time. And with launch of apple silicon, the performance of them is even better. They won’t game, but for a certain type of person they are a good choice. And for other people they’re a bad choice, that they’ll make just for the sake of social status or whatever.
- Not a apple fanboy, see my other comment.
My experience may be too anecdotal to take into account, so I understand not caring about my specific experience. But I do think it’s a good idea to take life span into account, and from a quick google search the average lifespan of a Macbook air is generally 5-7 years (so really not far off).
Just something to consider that since parts aren’t replaceable, OP would have to pay the full amount of a new laptop at that time
Apple does flat-rate repairs for Mac laptops that haven’t been damaged by impact or liquid damage. If they can perform a repair cheaper in-store, they usually will do so, but I am going on old info from being a repair tech at an Apple Store a decade ago. You could ask an Apple Store employee to get the cost of flat-rate repairs from a technician and then you’d know what you’re potentially looking at. I’ve owned many Mac laptops and only needed a repair on one (and that was still under warranty).
I’m a Mac nerd who’s fascinated by Framework laptops. I don’t think either decision would be wrong. I haven’t got to test drive one, so I can’t offer an informed opinion beyond what I’ve said here.
