Once globalism finally arrives we can abolish all nations and own everything together under the banner of a whole planet. I’m idealistic to a fault, even if it borders on lunacy. Reminds me…the whole planet and the moon too.
I feel patriotism for a country that was taken over by the country I live in.
Aren’t all states the result of colonialism or warfare if you go back far enough?
States, yes, probably. Individual cities? Not necessarily
Yep.
99%, there’s a few outliers (uninhabited islands that then got settled on at some point, mostly), but they’re the exception to the rule
Yes but framing it that way doesn’t allow the nations with older colonial claims to feel superior to the newer ones so they set the cutoff at about 300 years.
Its very important to close the gate at the right point in time so you feel the most important and the only person worthy of pity. For from pity come guilt and guilt is a wonderful commodity to be wielded and leveraged. But its also something you don’t want to waste.
Ugh, those garish folks are New Horror, we Old Horror would never stoop to those levels.
Also the framign of the meme allows for patriotism in so called socialist states, as they are always labeled as (by themselves and by tankies) anti imperialist and antk colonialist.
So your answer to the ship of theseus is that any ship is the ship of theseus.
Underrated comment. This should be obvious, it’s not just a NA/EU issue.
Feeling patriotic for any country by that logic would be incorrect.
NA and Europe have a colonial legacy. The middle east and indian subcontinent have their own history of imperialist aggravations, lang-grabbing, mass rapes and murders, etc. This is true for pretty much the rest of the world too (South America, Russia, east Asia).
There is no “clean” land, and it’s not even a spectrum issue, because issues of a similar weight have indeed occured in everywhere.
Singling out any particular country is nonsensical.
because issues of a similar weight have indeed occured in everywhere.
Not quite. Few societies have anything like the Holocaust, the colonization of the Americas or British India under their belts. These things aren’t unheard of, but they’re still pretty rare historically since the political and economic logic usually made them suboptimal before capitalism. There’s also the fact that we’re not talking about only past colonialism, but also present (neo) colonialism. The difference between feeling patriotic for modern Britain and for the British Empire is a difference of degree, not kind. That said,
Feeling patriotic for any country by that logic would be incorrect.
Absolutely. Patriotism is stupid.
It’s not few by any means.
The Muslim empire spread through Africa, Europe, and Asia at its peak and many mass killings, rapes, murders, etc did occur in the process of the imperialism and land grabs.
Japan has a history of ethnic cleansing/genocide towards the Ryukyu and Ainu people. They also committed similar atrocities towards the Koreans in the war, and the mass rape of Koreans kept up through expansions of American bases there.
China has an Uyghur genocide
New Zealand genocided it’s native populations the same way America and Canada did.
I can go on and on. I can give you similar dirt on most countries. This is not a phenomenon unique to a specific or few geographic regions by any means.
The difference between feeling patriotic for modern Britain and for the British Empire is a difference of degree, not kind.
Hard disagree, Britain never stopped being problematic; it remains a neocolonial force today. It is the biggest arms supplier to Israel, i.e. it is directly supporting the Zionist genocide of Palestinians the most. Though this is not the only way it remains neocolonial.
The Muslim empire spread through Africa, Europe, and Asia at its peak and many mass killings, rapes, murders, etc did occur in the process of the imperialism and land grabs.
There’s no one Muslim empire so you’ll need to be more specific. Also there’s a pretty big difference between “normal” levels of mass killings and rapes and what European colonial powers were getting up to. Things that bad tend to get pretty famous, see: the Mongols.
Japan has a history of ethnic cleansing/genocide towards the Ryukyu and Ainu people. They also committed similar atrocities towards the Koreans in the war, and the mass rape of Koreans kept up through expansions of American bases there.
Imperial Japan was also a 19th-20th century colonial power so okay? My whole argument is that not all societies have committed crimes as terrible as those committed by 19th-20th century colonial powers.
New Zealand genocided it’s native populations the same way America and Canada did.
I mean yes those are all cases of European settler colonialism. Your point?
China has an Uyghur genocide
Yeah but the Uighur genocide is downright peanuts compared to anything you or I brought up in this conversation. Now I’m sure China has stuff that could be brought up here, but that’s not it.
I can give you similar dirt on most countries.
Then please do, because so far you’re only going for low hanging fruits that are rightly famous for their horribleness. How does this apply to places like Syria, Afghanistan or Nepal?
it remains a neocolonial force today.
Yes, which is why I said supporting Britain is problematic in the same way supporting the British Empire would’ve been problematic, just less so because modern Britain isn’t killing millions of people every year, only thousands.
It is the biggest arms supplier to Israel,
Nope, that’s America. Britain is third IIRC.
There’s no one Muslim empire so you’ll need to be more specific.
All of them, quite literally.
“normal” levels of mass killings and rapes
No such thing as “normal” levels of mass killings and rape.
My whole argument is that not all societies have committed crimes as terrible as those committed by 19th-20th century colonial powers.
My argument is that all societies have these things in their history. Not the goalpost of my argument.
the Uighur genocide is downright peanuts
Wow. It’s genocide. Period.
Nope, that’s America. Britain is third IIRC.
Point stands, regardless if that’s true or not. Britain is still neocolonial.
Syria, Afghanistan or Nepal
Syria and Afghanistan were both part of the Muslim empire.
Yes, patriotism is just a form of artificial walls.
Correct. Patriotism is a form of xenophobia.
That’s not 100% correct. For example the island nation Mauritius didn’t have humans on it and has therefore been colonised and fought over without a genocide, then became independent in 1968.
Also, there are currently areas of land no nation claims for itself. They may become independent nations. We’ll see.
I imagine that’s very much an exception. My point was just that this is the case for the vast majority of countries, like 90%, not necessarily that it is a 100%.
So only one island on the whole planet
idk it was an example i knew right away. it’s possible there are more. but to go unnoticed by humans until the slaughtering is over, they must be hard to find regions like this small island.
Perhaps patriotism is the wrong word, but I do feel a certain belief in those around me. At the bottom of my heart I know that my community, local and across my state, can be better. If I didn’t believe that I suppose I’d be among those fleeing for greener pastures rather than investing in where I am. These people may be incredibly misguided, but having hope for a better world means believing that everywhere and everyone can begin the process of healing.
Patriotism refers to a valid sense of feeling connected with your roots I’d say, but the word comes from world war 2 meaning “worshipper of a country” is a very nationalist term. The patro part means father and gives patriarchical vibes as well. For this reason I think it is better to relight this word.
Playing on the word root, we could sprout the word “rootling” meaning “one who feel connectedness to a community”.
The patro part means father and gives patriarchical vibes as well
You’re very close!
Emphasis on patriotism for living in a colonialist state
It wasnt a comment to refute the message, rather a critique of the word itself.
What is the feeling when you’re pleased with the decisions that people who live in the same place as you are making, because their decisions show a willingness to make personal sacrifices for the greater good of humanity or the planet?
Solidarity, harmony.
Camaraderie?
This is a real thing? I’ve never felt this.
“OMG I’m so proud to have been shat out on this specific plot of land defined by imaginary lines!!!” - Patriots
If your national anthem isn’t The Internationale I don’t care what you think.
Just to add another layer to this - a “patriot” might additionally be someone who actively approves of how their government behaves, and the country’s history, to the point where they’ve contributed to it
October 12, nothing to celebrate
btw imperialist does what imperialistic does, and is a real word
What if my patriotism only extends to will to exist outside the shithole that is the United States lol
To be fair, Canada and kther nations have the potential to fall down. I’m already seeing the cracks start to form
I want to post that too, how do you do it?
It’s an emoji “on loan” from the folks at Hexbear, who have their own collection. Just copy down one of the following:
        The text in square brackets [] is alt-text, so you can change it it if you want (e.g. AmeriKKKa —> AmeriKKKan) without affecting what is shown. I believe that the text in double-quotes has to start with “emoji” for Lemmy to expect it as an emoji.
Enjoy
As a Canadian, I approve of this message
Hell yeah
Idk why you’re downvoted, but I stand by the fact that I 100% agree with you.
