• Maggoty@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Hamas has explicitly said they would accept the 1969 borders with no settlers, no IDF presence, and an actual Palestinian state that’s not controlled by Israel.

    So try again.

    • Rolder@reddthat.com
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      9 months ago

      The same Hamas whose charter explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people? Sure.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Go read it. No seriously. Stop letting Israel tell you what it says, and actually go read it.

        Here’s the link.

        They clearly do not like Zionism and would love to have the entire region back. But they lay out their demands for peace pretty clearly.

        • Rolder@reddthat.com
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          9 months ago

          Also in the linked 2017 charter they state

          1. The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination.

          Which certainly sounds like them wanting to destroy Israel.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            They’re saying they don’t consider the state of Israel to be legal. That does not mean they intend to keep fighting after their demands for a Palestinian state are met. They are very clear about their peace goals and they do not include the dissolution of Israel.

            • newDayRocks@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Declare our state legitimate, but also

              Your state is illegitimate.

              Sounds entirely peaceful and would not lead to further future conflicts.

        • Rolder@reddthat.com
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          9 months ago

          And then you look at their original 1988 charter,

          https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

          Where they say…

          Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah’s promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

          “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

          Or,

          “ Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory). “

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Well no. Because this charter is meant to supersede that. Just like nobody accuses the US of banning alcohol after having replaced that amendment with one saying alcohol is fine again. Trying to hang the original charter around their neck like an anchor is a propaganda thing meant to prevent them from moderating.

            Do we want less violence or more?

            • Rolder@reddthat.com
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              9 months ago

              Considering they have still been launching rockets at civilian centers not to mention killing innocent Israelis, taking hostages, etc since putting in the new charter, Im not sure I believe them.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                Since Israel has been killing civilians at the fastest rate since World War 2, I’m not sure I believe their statements.

                But if there’s to be peace there must be a good faith effort. And Israel has never shown that.

                • Rolder@reddthat.com
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                  9 months ago

                  Neither has Hamas. There are no good guys in this conflict, which is what makes it very difficult.

                  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                    9 months ago

                    Hamas stood for election on a moderate platform. But Israel immediately declared war on them. Hamas reduced their demands for peace to an end of the occupation and an actual Palestinian state. Israel scoffed and bombed hospitals because the doctors were political members of Hamas.

                    They also attempted to take part in the Trump administration negotiations and got locked out. They then waited for Biden, and got nothing.

                    How long does one keep writing letters before they pick up a musket?