Most insane to me is that, it’s EU who will have to deal with humanitarian crisis and spend more money supporting Ukraine to offset Russia’s oil profits from increasing prices.
Call me crazy but US seems to have more interest in supporting Russia’s war and destabilizing EU than destroying Iran’s regime. As part of this operation at least
seems intentional, like with russia causing a “mass migration” into the EU to illicit anti-immigration sentiment amongst the far right. seems like its working in that favor.
Withdrawing from NATO doesn’t make sense. It would probably take upwards of 20-30 years to replace what would be lost by doing that. It’s not worth it. I 100% agree with everything else you stated, though.
Withdrawing from NATO doesn’t make sense. It would probably take upwards of 20-30 years to replace what would be lost by doing that. It’s not worth it.
What are you on about? NATO is comprised of EU countries plus Canada (with rumors of Canada joining the EU)… and the US.
Withdrawing from NATO would basically mean dropping the US. In this timeline, that’s very desirable, unless you’re selling murican arms.
NATO is useless now.
I think NATO effectively no longer exists anyway - better to get rid of it sooner rather than later.
De facto NATO is dead, because the US - it’s most powerful member - can no longer be trusted. I hope the political leaders of all other Member States see this.
But that doesn’t mean it no longer any value. It’s main goal has become deterrence, and Russia and China still need to be deterred.
because it has brought nothing but misery since the end of World War II.
This is totally false, you can argue it has brought misery but you cannot say it didn’t bring any good.
The 80 years before it’s creation (and the creation of the UN) have been much more violent than the 80 years since. Sure Asia and the Global South haven’t shared in the peace it brought, but it’s not like the west had brought peace there before.
There might be a better future without Nato, but i don’t think the world as a whole would’ve been better off if Nato never existed in the first place. The Sovjet union would probably still be there for example, and except for the ruling class that was not a nice place to live in.
I see no reason not to let the existing world order collapse, because it has brought nothing but misery since the end of World War II.
How can you say that when the whole point of the existing world order was to prevent another World War II, which they have been successful at? There haven’t been any wars with as many lives lost as that one ever since, largely in part due to the fact that every time someone looked like they wanted to take over the world again, the rest of the democratic world united to force them where otherwise divided they would succeed.
You said “since the end of World War II” not “since Trump was elected”. How can I hold Trump responsible for things that happened before he was even born?
There’s a good chance the situation will change significant in three years. It’s worth to at least wait for that while acting right now either way but without completely giving up already.
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Most insane to me is that, it’s EU who will have to deal with humanitarian crisis and spend more money supporting Ukraine to offset Russia’s oil profits from increasing prices.
Call me crazy but US seems to have more interest in supporting Russia’s war and destabilizing EU than destroying Iran’s regime. As part of this operation at least
seems intentional, like with russia causing a “mass migration” into the EU to illicit anti-immigration sentiment amongst the far right. seems like its working in that favor.
The US has labeled the EU its number one enemy. Destabilizing the EU as a goal isn’t very far fetched, even if not a primary goal.
EU passive stance can be seen as pragmatic or necessary, or injust and severely lacking depending on how you look at it.
Withdrawing from NATO doesn’t make sense. It would probably take upwards of 20-30 years to replace what would be lost by doing that. It’s not worth it. I 100% agree with everything else you stated, though.
In that case, better start preparing for that replacement as soon as possible. Ideally way back when the US invoked Article 5 the first time.
What are you on about? NATO is comprised of EU countries plus Canada (with rumors of Canada joining the EU)… and the US.
Withdrawing from NATO would basically mean dropping the US. In this timeline, that’s very desirable, unless you’re selling murican arms.
NATO is useless now.
That is only true if you want every single NATO country to be unable to defend themselves from Russian aggression.
No country want to be part of Russia, even the ones that aren’t in NATO want to join because of how hostile Russia is.
NATO is even more important now than it ever was. That is why it is growing, not shrinking.
Putin is the reason NATO needs to exist.
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De facto NATO is dead, because the US - it’s most powerful member - can no longer be trusted. I hope the political leaders of all other Member States see this.
But that doesn’t mean it no longer any value. It’s main goal has become deterrence, and Russia and China still need to be deterred.
This is totally false, you can argue it has brought misery but you cannot say it didn’t bring any good.
The 80 years before it’s creation (and the creation of the UN) have been much more violent than the 80 years since. Sure Asia and the Global South haven’t shared in the peace it brought, but it’s not like the west had brought peace there before.
There might be a better future without Nato, but i don’t think the world as a whole would’ve been better off if Nato never existed in the first place. The Sovjet union would probably still be there for example, and except for the ruling class that was not a nice place to live in.
How can you say that when the whole point of the existing world order was to prevent another World War II, which they have been successful at? There haven’t been any wars with as many lives lost as that one ever since, largely in part due to the fact that every time someone looked like they wanted to take over the world again, the rest of the democratic world united to force them where otherwise divided they would succeed.
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You said “since the end of World War II” not “since Trump was elected”. How can I hold Trump responsible for things that happened before he was even born?
well i got this pitchfork and this pitch and this lighter. you got a big piece of wood?
There’s a good chance the situation will change significant in three years. It’s worth to at least wait for that while acting right now either way but without completely giving up already.
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Aren’t we all learning globally our governments aren’t what they tell us they are?
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its actually like .05-.01 richest people, the real billionaires.
The exploitation didn’t really start until the 1980’s. Before then, the population was benefiting as well.
No, I live in a functioning democracy, don’t normalize your electoral college nonsense on me.
Why would the EU withdraw from NATO? What has NATO done to piss them off?
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Right, so the EU wouldn’t withdraw from NATO, they would kick the US out of it.
Although NATO has survived hotter internal conflicts before, it can probably come out of this intact if Trump turns out to be an abberation.