Yeah I know that. The error of conflating the two was not mine.
The underlying point – and I’m going to explain it because it is often left unsaid on lemmy and serves as the basis for sarcasm – is that the motive for kicking all the “illegals” out of the country comes from a place of hate, ignorance, and fear rather than some kind of rule of law purity.
That’s why it gets pointed out in an “I told you so” fashion when somebody in favor of short circuiting due process for “violent illegals” loses their legal immigrant spouse or gets their own US Citizen ass whisked away to another continent.
If it were about the law, they wouldn’t want to circumvent the law to hurt the “others” faster.
aside: it sucks that every time I use an em dash in a comment it makes me wonder if people will think I use some LLM crap to compose internet comments for 17 people to read, lol
Possibly. There are problems caused by illegal immigration, as well as how America abuses legal immigrants. Just because I live in a place where multiculturalism is seen as a benefit to the community, doesnt mean everyone does.
I really dont think anyone expected how the trump admin is treating immigrants, but most right wing people won’t be exposed to any media that clues them in. Thats why we see people only realize after being personally affected.
All that said, when someone changes their mind from a worse position to a better one, we should be cheering them on, not insulting and laughing at them.
I don’t really think that such a person really learned the lesson. They’re only seeking individual exception, not criticizing the policy, let alone reflecting on their other beliefs or the other policies of their leader.
Personal experience can be very powerful, and I dont believe its less meaningful because they didnt notice until they were affected. We have all had this happen to us to some degree, I’m not going to hold it against someone.
At the very least this will change how they think about immigration in the states when it comes up in conversation.
Again, I don’t believe it will, because they’ve clearly put themselves in a separate category as “the others” who deserve it. Historically, in these situations, people like this will start to blame the other victims “this wouldn’t have happened if it wasn’t for you”. They believe that they’ve been mistakenly swept up in a good and righteous action against bad people.
They can victim blame.
They can say “my immigrant is special and isn’t one of the bad ones. It is the fault of the bad immigrants that this policy was needed and therefore their fault that I was affected.”
Well, maybe the fact you can’t see how other people have different lives and live under different systems, makes it hard for you to see other perspectives.
Yes, people who are around immigrants and find a social benefit tend to promote immigration, while those who are around immigrants and see a social detriment will be against immigration.
There is almost no illegal immigration in the US because immigration is not a criminal offense. Don’t get to try to sound serious and then lie about the law. Immigration violations are civil infractions, like parking tickets.
You were calling innocent people criminals, and you know the implications of doing so. People will think they’re dangerous when they aren’t, for example. Also, many people are here seeking asylum or overstaying visas, and entered by the rules even if their time has run out.
And you could have said “hey, I got you, thanks for clarifying the difference”. Instead you are looking for gotchas. I’m not. I don’t care about that. The quality of human life is more important to me.
Someone who breaks laws to enter a country by definition is not innocent of that crime. But thats all it is, I dont think they are bad or evil people. I’d likely do the same thing if I were them.
I’m against illegal immigration and its not out of fear or hatred. You can choose to believe me or not.
I hope that clears it up for you, I didn’t think it worth it to address the other stuff you said. Sorry.
I really dont think anyone expected how the trump admin is treating immigrants,
Considering the audience on this platform, that hyperbolic statement is erring in the wrong direction. Not only do I bet that a majority of people reading this expected it, but I half expect to see somebody else reply “EVERYBODY expected this, you son of an honorable dame” or something like that.
but most right wing people won’t be exposed to any media that clues them in.
I do believe that audience would have plenty of genuine “nobody expected this” reactions. Are you a recovering conservative yourself? I grew up in that world. Been there, friend.
I’m not a recovering conservative but I have a lot of compassion and empathy for that group. At a certain point I realized all the anti-conservative talk here was just as bigoted as people claim conservatives are.
I really don’t like seeing posts where someone is vulnerable and honest about their life, and the responses on here are hateful and in some cases violent.
I don’t understand how the people on here posting don’t realize they are part of the problem.
Yeah I know that. The error of conflating the two was not mine.
The underlying point – and I’m going to explain it because it is often left unsaid on lemmy and serves as the basis for sarcasm – is that the motive for kicking all the “illegals” out of the country comes from a place of hate, ignorance, and fear rather than some kind of rule of law purity.
That’s why it gets pointed out in an “I told you so” fashion when somebody in favor of short circuiting due process for “violent illegals” loses their legal immigrant spouse or gets their own US Citizen ass whisked away to another continent.
If it were about the law, they wouldn’t want to circumvent the law to hurt the “others” faster.
aside: it sucks that every time I use an em dash in a comment it makes me wonder if people will think I use some LLM crap to compose internet comments for 17 people to read, lol
You will have to pry the em-dash out of my cold, dead rigor-mortised hands. I will not let AI take that from me.
No we don’t think any less of you–we just think it’s an irony thing.
Possibly. There are problems caused by illegal immigration, as well as how America abuses legal immigrants. Just because I live in a place where multiculturalism is seen as a benefit to the community, doesnt mean everyone does.
I really dont think anyone expected how the trump admin is treating immigrants, but most right wing people won’t be exposed to any media that clues them in. Thats why we see people only realize after being personally affected.
All that said, when someone changes their mind from a worse position to a better one, we should be cheering them on, not insulting and laughing at them.
I don’t really think that such a person really learned the lesson. They’re only seeking individual exception, not criticizing the policy, let alone reflecting on their other beliefs or the other policies of their leader.
Its a step in the right direction I’d like to think, but of course I’m being hopeful as I won’t know what happens.
Don’t trust an unscrupulous person just because their self interest briefly aligned with your beliefs or interests.
Personal experience can be very powerful, and I dont believe its less meaningful because they didnt notice until they were affected. We have all had this happen to us to some degree, I’m not going to hold it against someone.
At the very least this will change how they think about immigration in the states when it comes up in conversation.
Again, I don’t believe it will, because they’ve clearly put themselves in a separate category as “the others” who deserve it. Historically, in these situations, people like this will start to blame the other victims “this wouldn’t have happened if it wasn’t for you”. They believe that they’ve been mistakenly swept up in a good and righteous action against bad people.
Well they can’t blame liberals for this one. Where else can they point blame but their own party?
They can victim blame.
They can say “my immigrant is special and isn’t one of the bad ones. It is the fault of the bad immigrants that this policy was needed and therefore their fault that I was affected.”
Removed by mod
Well, maybe the fact you can’t see how other people have different lives and live under different systems, makes it hard for you to see other perspectives.
Removed by mod
Yes, people who are around immigrants and find a social benefit tend to promote immigration, while those who are around immigrants and see a social detriment will be against immigration.
Not sure what point you are making though.
Removed by mod
No there’s not many, but it does exist and when a country is as big as America, even minority groups are in the millions.
Removed by mod
There is almost no illegal immigration in the US because immigration is not a criminal offense. Don’t get to try to sound serious and then lie about the law. Immigration violations are civil infractions, like parking tickets.
You know I was referring to entering the country without the proper process. Sort of a weak gotcha there.
You were calling innocent people criminals, and you know the implications of doing so. People will think they’re dangerous when they aren’t, for example. Also, many people are here seeking asylum or overstaying visas, and entered by the rules even if their time has run out.
And you could have said “hey, I got you, thanks for clarifying the difference”. Instead you are looking for gotchas. I’m not. I don’t care about that. The quality of human life is more important to me.
Someone who breaks laws to enter a country by definition is not innocent of that crime. But thats all it is, I dont think they are bad or evil people. I’d likely do the same thing if I were them.
I’m against illegal immigration and its not out of fear or hatred. You can choose to believe me or not.
I hope that clears it up for you, I didn’t think it worth it to address the other stuff you said. Sorry.
Considering the audience on this platform, that hyperbolic statement is erring in the wrong direction. Not only do I bet that a majority of people reading this expected it, but I half expect to see somebody else reply “EVERYBODY expected this, you son of an honorable dame” or something like that.
I do believe that audience would have plenty of genuine “nobody expected this” reactions. Are you a recovering conservative yourself? I grew up in that world. Been there, friend.
I’m not a recovering conservative but I have a lot of compassion and empathy for that group. At a certain point I realized all the anti-conservative talk here was just as bigoted as people claim conservatives are.
I really don’t like seeing posts where someone is vulnerable and honest about their life, and the responses on here are hateful and in some cases violent.
I don’t understand how the people on here posting don’t realize they are part of the problem.