Your outrage is justified, but your reasoning is flawed. Take an economics course. You’d be very surprised how limited the federal minimum wage is in accomplishing a livable wage across our nation. It’s a safety net for the poverty line. Any more than that will destroy the local economies of poor states. That’s why states set their own minimum wage.
I’d argue you’re the one who needs more courses on economics but considering how varied the courses and reasoning in economics can be that’s slightly pointless. Then again wonder which you took if arguing we should be racing to bottom with wages.
MIT puts it best by saying min wage should be a living wage not just poverty level:
Yes. Federal minimum wage was designed to be set at a livable wage for the poorest states. States with higher costs of living are supposed to raise their minimum wage above the poverty line for their state.
I’m in NY. A higher federal minimum wage would actually benefit me, because we would see less of a hike in essential goods and services. An increase to $17/hr is only $0.50 more than the current state minimum wage. It’s the poor states and older people that suffer when the minimum wage is too high.
The increased price of goods drives people to corporations over private businesses. The private businesses can’t afford the higher payroll, resulting in layoffs. Those businesses fold, and the previous employees go to the corporations for minimum wage jobs. They inevitability end up on SNAP or other federal assistance while working full time once inflation sets in.
Older people nearing retirement may be forced to work for longer, because their target retirement savings is no longer sufficient. Social Security payments are adjusted for inflation at 2.5%, which is dwarfed by sizable increases in the minimum wage.
Again, as I said above, I’m all for a livable wage across our nation. I’m saying that adjusting the minimum wage is not the only lever that needs to be pulled to make that happen, and brining it up too high too quickly can actually be worse for poor areas than better.
That depends on the position and location. I believe it should be enough to satisfy the cost of living in your area, provided you work full-time, if that’s what you’re getting at.
I’ve survived the last 25 years by living in shit poor neighborhoods and commuting to work in wealthy areas of the city. It’s far from ideal, and I’ve barely saved 1/10 of what I’d need to retire.
I’m in complete agreement that our system is fucked.
No, i just had to pass an economics class that had a required paper on protecting the vulnerable members of society through federal social systems and the minimum wage. It became abundantly clear that our system of economy is the reason we have the need for social programs, not the federal minimum wage.
As I said above, I’d prefer that we all had a livable wage. That’s not feasible with our current economic system. We’d need to employ more democratic socialism and use adjustable subsidies to ensure all people were paid enough through a regularly fluctuating economy.
BTW, I am the exploited, so there’s really no benefit for me in this argument. It’s simply an educated perspective.
You really don’t follow. I’m not defending inequality. I’m stating an economic fact that increasing the federal minimum wage too much will not only fail to provide a livable wage nationwide, but it will also put more people below the poverty line due to the increased cost of domestic goods and services provided at the new higher wages. More people would be on SNAP as well as working full time due to the increased cost of our food supply chain.
It’s honestly not as simple as turning it up to fix everything. Our capitalism needs to be checked with more democratic socialism if we want to move more people into stable income ranges. My personal investment would be to address our medical system first with socialized medicine, but that’s hardly enough on its own. Inequality will only worsen with AI replacement.
You really don’t follow. I’m not defending inequality. I’m stating an economic fact that increasing the federal minimum wage too much will not only fail to provide a livable wage, but it will also put more people below the poverty line due to the increased cost of domestic goods and services provided at the new higher wages. More people would be on SNAP as well as working full time due to the increased cost of our food supply chain.
Your outrage is justified, but your reasoning is flawed. Take an economics course. You’d be very surprised how limited the federal minimum wage is in accomplishing a livable wage across our nation. It’s a safety net for the poverty line. Any more than that will destroy the local economies of poor states. That’s why states set their own minimum wage.
I’d argue you’re the one who needs more courses on economics but considering how varied the courses and reasoning in economics can be that’s slightly pointless. Then again wonder which you took if arguing we should be racing to bottom with wages. MIT puts it best by saying min wage should be a living wage not just poverty level:
https://livingwage.mit.edu/
Then there’s the fact it would be in 20 dollars rage by simply being tied to inflation:
https://cepr.net/publications/correction-this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/
Finally increasing it would actually help marginalized groups
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/raising-the-minimum-wage-would-be-an-investment-in-growing-the-middle-class/
It should be a living wage…in each state. Why is it so hard for everyone to understand the difference between state and federal minimum wages?
Because federal is the floor all the states need to be at or above. Or because states are just arbitrary boundaries in the nation.
Why are you so against anything other than it should barely be above the worst state(s)?
And if for a living wage you wouldn’t be saying 17 since that’s still too low in your example of Arkansas
https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/05
Yes. Federal minimum wage was designed to be set at a livable wage for the poorest states. States with higher costs of living are supposed to raise their minimum wage above the poverty line for their state.
I’m in NY. A higher federal minimum wage would actually benefit me, because we would see less of a hike in essential goods and services. An increase to $17/hr is only $0.50 more than the current state minimum wage. It’s the poor states and older people that suffer when the minimum wage is too high.
The increased price of goods drives people to corporations over private businesses. The private businesses can’t afford the higher payroll, resulting in layoffs. Those businesses fold, and the previous employees go to the corporations for minimum wage jobs. They inevitability end up on SNAP or other federal assistance while working full time once inflation sets in.
Older people nearing retirement may be forced to work for longer, because their target retirement savings is no longer sufficient. Social Security payments are adjusted for inflation at 2.5%, which is dwarfed by sizable increases in the minimum wage.
Again, as I said above, I’m all for a livable wage across our nation. I’m saying that adjusting the minimum wage is not the only lever that needs to be pulled to make that happen, and brining it up too high too quickly can actually be worse for poor areas than better.
Us hayseeds just wouldn’t know what to do with human levels of money.
Don’t project your self-deprecation on others. It’s whiny and pathetic.
How little do you think I should be paid, at minimum?
Is it greater than zero?
That depends on the position and location. I believe it should be enough to satisfy the cost of living in your area, provided you work full-time, if that’s what you’re getting at.
I wish I could live in your world where the corporate jobs paid more to keep people off snap or other assistances.
But again just shows how much our nation is failing us when that is used to prevent helping get people out of poverty.
I’ve survived the last 25 years by living in shit poor neighborhoods and commuting to work in wealthy areas of the city. It’s far from ideal, and I’ve barely saved 1/10 of what I’d need to retire.
I’m in complete agreement that our system is fucked.
Which is why it’s so odd how against you are at actually raising it to a proper level…
I’ve typed it out several times. I hope you don’t mind me linking a more complete explanation.
https://lemmy.world/comment/16409180
You want a permanent underclass of flyover morlocks to exploit.
No, i just had to pass an economics class that had a required paper on protecting the vulnerable members of society through federal social systems and the minimum wage. It became abundantly clear that our system of economy is the reason we have the need for social programs, not the federal minimum wage.
As I said above, I’d prefer that we all had a livable wage. That’s not feasible with our current economic system. We’d need to employ more democratic socialism and use adjustable subsidies to ensure all people were paid enough through a regularly fluctuating economy.
BTW, I am the exploited, so there’s really no benefit for me in this argument. It’s simply an educated perspective.
How convenient for those of you who have already gotten theirs.
As I said above, I am the exploited. Reading comprehension is not your forte, is it?
Let’s pretend you are. Then we both are. You’re just making excuses for those that exploit you.
You really don’t follow. I’m not defending inequality. I’m stating an economic fact that increasing the federal minimum wage too much will not only fail to provide a livable wage nationwide, but it will also put more people below the poverty line due to the increased cost of domestic goods and services provided at the new higher wages. More people would be on SNAP as well as working full time due to the increased cost of our food supply chain.
It’s honestly not as simple as turning it up to fix everything. Our capitalism needs to be checked with more democratic socialism if we want to move more people into stable income ranges. My personal investment would be to address our medical system first with socialized medicine, but that’s hardly enough on its own. Inequality will only worsen with AI replacement.
Right. You got yours. Fuck us flyover morlocks.