“Field must be between 3 and 5000 characters long.”
it WAS between 3 & 5000 chars, but this is blocking it still??
Now I’m chopping it into pieces, to see if that’ll work, to get this feedback available for the dev…
There are a number of gotchas which seem to be missed by the author ( excellent thinker/writer, generally ) of that blog-post…
https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/
Inexperienced mods points: put training-wheels information right there where they need it
As Atul Gawande noted, there are 2 categories of checklists ( book “The Checklist Manifesto”: he’s the guy who made the UN’s surgery checklist )…
- checklists for discussions-between-people/roles which have to happen
- checklists for tasks which have to happen
Knowing this, is there some set-of-checklists which new-mods can have, which takes them no more than 1.5mins to read, & which accurizes their actions, in modding?
the low-karma section, users who downvote too much…
Notice that some have 100.0% of their votes being downvotes, & another has 50.0%??
That, to me, looks like insufficient data-points for statistics to be valid on them!
1 downvote & no upvotes, is 100.0% downvotes, right?
you have to identify how many votes they have cast, in order to be competent to interpret the percentages properly , right?
Oh, this: brigading, or whatever it’s called, when a faction rampages somebody with downvotes, to get them punished, for not-groveling-to the faction who decided to rampage on 'em…
That happens.
Not just online, it happens in families, too…
It cannot be accommodated, so therefore the diversity of users who did the downvoting of the user in-question is important…
IF it’s some specific subset of users who are systematically abusing people of whatever attribute, THEN it isn’t the downvoted who are the problem, it is the down-votERS who are the problem, right?
( as people have noticed, Hitler & Trump both are using law to dismantle civil-society’s laws … this leverage is exactly what I’m talking about, but in a different context: just because a complaint has been filed, doesn’t mean that it’s the complainer who’s good…
Psychiatrist M. Scott Peck, in his book “People of the Lie”, identified that when somebody is introduced to him in his professional-capacity, as “the problem”, it is routine to note that that person is the identified patient … but to reserve-judgement until they can figure-out who’s telling the truth, see?
This is what I’m holding to be required: see not-just the apparent evidence, see the actual evidence, before judging…
Usually the apparent-evidence is going to be right-enough.
The problem is that when one is being used as a weapon by a gaslighter to harm an already-abused life, the cost of that isn’t “minor”.
Low-quality communities ( where “karma” is thrown-around like confetti ) have their karma disconnected…
Really, those communities ( the memes communities you identify, e.g. ) do provide a service, so some karma might be in order?
I’m thinking square-root of upvotes, though, or 5th-root of upvotes, or something: find out what fraction actually is fairly proportional for such communities, & let people who cheer the population up have some karma from that…
the number of people in the community would be in the equation I’d use, & so would the number of daily-participants in the community, so that if some community got HUGE, it’d get its karma-equation toned-down more … but yeah, people who bring smiles onto the lives of the depressed are doing good, as many comments from people throughout such communities, through the years, has shown…
to be continued…
PieFed is bringing back karma?
Karma on piefed isn’t visible to the users, only to the instance admin. So, I don’t really see the incentive to farm it the same way as on reddit. What I can see on my (and others) account is my “Attitude” or the ratio of upvotes to downvotes:
Oh ok, that’s good to hear.
I’m worried that this might be a false sense of security. Mbin can, and will, show this as “reputation points”. See for example, https://fedia.io/u/@wjs018@piefed.social - it’s public, you don’t even need to have an account there to see it.
So someone could take a look at https://fedia.io/m/piefed_meta@piefed.social/t/1970895/comments-on-the-points-in-https-join-piefed-social-2024-06-22-piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities and check out the reputation of other commenters on this thread if they wanted to.
Likewise, one can view who upvoted or downvoted a post or comment, for example, https://fedia.io/m/piefed_meta@piefed.social/t/1970895/comments-on-the-points-in-https-join-piefed-social-2024-06-22-piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/comment/9993522/favourites (and again don’t even need to log in to see that info)
You can’t see downvotes
Ah, my mistake, you are right. I did not look closely enough. fedia.io’s reduce tab … isn’t a tab, it’s just text. Clicking on it doesn’t do anything. Also, it seems to lack the route to show the downvotes (e.g. https://fedia.io/m/piefed_meta@piefed.social/t/1970895/comments-on-the-points-in-https-join-piefed-social-2024-06-22-piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/down takes one to a 404).
I had to search out actual OG kbin servers (e.g. https://bin.pol.social/ and https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/ ) to double check. So OG kbin does show the downvotes (see for example https://bin.pol.social/m/kbinMeta@kbin.social/t/11031/Hey-that-s-cool/votes/down and https://bin.pol.social/m/wiadomosci@szmer.info/t/19503/Kosiniak-Kamysz-Przez-skladke-zdrowotna-firmy-nie-moga-tworzyc-miejsc-pracy/votes/down ) - oddly though, the only examples I can find list only downvotes from users local to the instance.
Anyways, it seems then that while upvotes are public, no major instance currently shows downvotes publicly, and no major forumiverse software (forum-like software in the fediverse) supports showing it either.
Now … if you’re expecting all votes to be leaning towards privacy, then you might still end up having a problem, in particular if you’re upvoting something controversial (for example: https://fedia.io/m/politics@lemmy.world/t/1335132/Trump-overtakes-Harris-in-our-forecast/favourites ) but it’s still definitely an improvement for privacy-expecting new users.
The reputation points shown there are calculated by Mbin - PieFed instances do not share the karma score with other instances and does not show the karma score publicly in the UI to anyone except admins.
Yup, accurate.
Accurate.
Correct in the sense that the total isn’t being shared with anyone.
But upvotes and downvotes* are federated, which is something that I’m still seeing being a surprise to new users, despite it being around since when kbin was young as per https://sh.itjust.works/post/361524 (In fact just had one recently, https://lemmy.world/post/27042619/15815241 )
So we’d expect that (assuming there are no issues with federation) the mbin reputation score would include any upvotes or downvotes made by piefed.social users, for example. So on this thread itself, we can see who upvoted it, https://fedia.io/m/piefed_meta@piefed.social/t/1970895/comments-on-the-points-in-https-join-piefed-social-2024-06-22-piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/favourites and that one of the upvotes is from a piefed user
Ah. I’ve fixed that now, thanks for letting me know.
Ah, I just saw https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/commit/e71f4dbb92f63f3da285707cfb418d115a4de226#diff-e919f1e867cfa561970ba9549250f4d5bb90bcf6
That’s pretty cool - amazed also at how quickly you’re able to get to these improvements. Keep up the good work!
It’s an old blog post, they are indeed
Not sure how to feel about that
There are pros and cons. I guess some kind of karma will be unavoidable once we reach 100k monthly active users.
I’m fine with it being used for moderation purposes. It’s just that it won’t be good if people start doing the same thing as in Reddit again.
It should probably be hidden or capped to avoid farming
Isn’t that admin and/or mod only? It was hidden the last time I checked. It was meant strictly for administration purposes only.
See this comment https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/40870689/17602887
I agree, this doesn’t belong in the fediverse
We will still need more capable moderation tools once we reach 75k or 100k monthly active users
How does piefed have 75-100k users or does karma have anything to do with moderation
Another use case is prevent DMs from very young accounts, that could help with the Nicole spam
Karma allows to filter bad actors from posting/commenting in communities.
An alternative measure is “Attitude”, which has been posted in another comment
Idk I just find karma really toxic. It brings out the downvoting hive mind
There’s already a downvoting hive mind here from time to time. But I’m not the biggest karma fan either
Agreed. I turned it off on my instance and settings so I can’t see it. It’s makes for a healthier experience.