Unpopular opinion, but I don’t really mind them, for now. They are not that imposing and I like to see the other viewpoint occasionaly, as I don’t use other social networks. Makes me feel like I’m in less of a bubble here.
Old conservatism was people advocating for individual choice and less government intervention.
Misguided, sure, but a healthy check on expanding government into places it didn’t need to be and advocating for the “ideal” capitalism that drives competition and innovation.
For as long as it has existed conservatism has been poisoned by religion of and in the last 50 years it as a party line has descended into incoherence, but it’s interesting to see the best-faith arguments it has as a little contrast to my left wing bubble.
The whole “advocating for individual choice and less government intervention” thing was always a lie that they told to dupe rubes into thinking their ideology wasn’t elitist and abhorrent.
Actual conservatism is healthy and useful. I want part of my government to look at what laws and policies are being pushed and say, “should we be doing this?”, “Should it cost that much?”, “Do we have something that does this already?”.
Unfortunately, the label has been co-opted, and it no longer strives to create the smallest effective government, but the largest totalitarian government instead.
The keyword is viewpoint. The inherent problem with conservatism across the globe, but obviously in the US, is the “viewpoint” is anti-science, anti-common-sense, and at worst disconnected from their policies.
I think there’s a place on social media for people who believe tariffs could, over time and at great expense, bring manufacturing home and that some viewpoints want that. That’s a viewpoint to debate. I do not think there’s a place for people to deny climate change, there is no debate to be had there.
I think there’s a place for people who want to discuss immigration policies and how best to balance the need for immigrants, the want for immigrants, the assimilation of immigrants, and the quantity/quality of immigrants. There’s system design to be had there. I do not think there’s a place for hate speech and dehumanization of immigrants as if they’re bad people (or when they’re used as political weapons like “caravans” in the US or “Sharia law”).
It doesn’t matter if conservatives agree with fixing healthcare or being against the rich, their politicians are only interested in using those as talking points because their allegiance is to their biggest donors which is big healthcare and the rich.
Conservatives across the globe, from everything I’ve seen in my admittedly short lifetime, are either anti-science/progress, pro-hate and emotionbaiting, or obvious liars.
In the US there is no Republican AOC or Bernie Sanders at the national level - who obviously and vocally are fighting for the workers. In Germany (where I am now) it’s the conservative AFD party that is a neo-nazi party and it’s the conservative CDU party that flirts with giving them partial power just to maintain their own power. Side tangent, it’s the libertarian (read conservative-lite) FD party that sabotaged the left leaning coalition just last year.
The people that flirt with destruction and societal regression are the conservatives, so it’s important that if they are allowed on any platform that their viewpoints are moderated. At least until they can stop flirting with fascism and lethal policies like remigration.
Im wary of echo chambers and it’s so incredibly easy to find yourself in them nowadays. It’s always good to be around dissenting opinions and have discussions with the other side. Obviously there’s a limit with hostility and all that but assuming civility it is pretty much always better to not be completely surrounded with people that think just like you.
The constantly repeated echo chamber argument is honestly kinda just nonsense. To conservatives, anything outside of their echo chamber is one big echo chamber because it disagrees with them.
Obviously, if all you ever do is go online and talk to Marxist groups or something, that’s one thing. But really, all you need to do is be exposed to people from different backgrounds as you to break up any echo chamber effect. That’s why so many kids become more progressive in college - it’s often the first time they get out of the echo chamber of their hometown and are exposed to kids who don’t look like them and grew up under different circumstances. If you’re on Lemmy, odds are pretty good that you’re exposed to minorities and other people with different backgrounds than yours. Places like Lemmy are full of people from all over the world and from all walks of life with all kinds of different views. You don’t need to go out of your way to expose yourself to conservatives like you’re building up a tolerance for poison or something. You can get that just by checking the news or Twitter.
You make a good point but I think you are severely underestimating the amount of terminally online people around the country (and world). Obviously if you go outside of your echo chamber you will see other perspectives… I don’t think anyone would question that. The problem is many many people rarely go outside that circle and will in fact actively avoid going outside that circle. And you’re right again that lemmy is diverse in it’s userbase but to say that it’s not very heavily leaning to one side of the political spectrum and liable to become an echo chamber for many is pretty disingenuous imo. I mean just look at this thread.
Now Im not saying you are doomed to become some wacko sycophantic nutjob from an echo chamber. But you will undoubtedly only get certain sides of stories that may very well shape your points of view. It’s just something to be aware of is all.
Unpopular opinion, but I don’t really mind them, for now. They are not that imposing and I like to see the other viewpoint occasionaly, as I don’t use other social networks. Makes me feel like I’m in less of a bubble here.
I’m okay with downvotes.
There are almost none and this seems to be a popular opinion!
How can you look at what is happening in the US and say they are not imposing?
Sorry, I meant they are not imposing here, on Lemmy. They are a minilority that often gets downvoted.
Also I try to not look at the US. It’s always extreme, like watching a bad reality show.
Old conservatism was people advocating for individual choice and less government intervention.
Misguided, sure, but a healthy check on expanding government into places it didn’t need to be and advocating for the “ideal” capitalism that drives competition and innovation.
For as long as it has existed conservatism has been poisoned by religion of and in the last 50 years it as a party line has descended into incoherence, but it’s interesting to see the best-faith arguments it has as a little contrast to my left wing bubble.
Old conservatism was defending the monarchy.
The whole “advocating for individual choice and less government intervention” thing was always a lie that they told to dupe rubes into thinking their ideology wasn’t elitist and abhorrent.
Actual conservatism is healthy and useful. I want part of my government to look at what laws and policies are being pushed and say, “should we be doing this?”, “Should it cost that much?”, “Do we have something that does this already?”.
Unfortunately, the label has been co-opted, and it no longer strives to create the smallest effective government, but the largest totalitarian government instead.
small c individual conservatives, sure. I count a few as my friends.
Big C Donald Trump, JD Vance, Musk, Bezos, Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak, Liz Truss, Theresa May, Marine Le Pen etc? Fuck offff
Also known as aspiring nahtCs
Musk? Aspiring? We’re about 6 years past that point.
Agreed. Lemmy feels very homogenous. A few dissenting viewpoints is healthy.
The keyword is viewpoint. The inherent problem with conservatism across the globe, but obviously in the US, is the “viewpoint” is anti-science, anti-common-sense, and at worst disconnected from their policies.
I think there’s a place on social media for people who believe tariffs could, over time and at great expense, bring manufacturing home and that some viewpoints want that. That’s a viewpoint to debate. I do not think there’s a place for people to deny climate change, there is no debate to be had there.
I think there’s a place for people who want to discuss immigration policies and how best to balance the need for immigrants, the want for immigrants, the assimilation of immigrants, and the quantity/quality of immigrants. There’s system design to be had there. I do not think there’s a place for hate speech and dehumanization of immigrants as if they’re bad people (or when they’re used as political weapons like “caravans” in the US or “Sharia law”).
It doesn’t matter if conservatives agree with fixing healthcare or being against the rich, their politicians are only interested in using those as talking points because their allegiance is to their biggest donors which is big healthcare and the rich.
Conservatives across the globe, from everything I’ve seen in my admittedly short lifetime, are either anti-science/progress, pro-hate and emotionbaiting, or obvious liars.
In the US there is no Republican AOC or Bernie Sanders at the national level - who obviously and vocally are fighting for the workers. In Germany (where I am now) it’s the conservative AFD party that is a neo-nazi party and it’s the conservative CDU party that flirts with giving them partial power just to maintain their own power. Side tangent, it’s the libertarian (read conservative-lite) FD party that sabotaged the left leaning coalition just last year.
The people that flirt with destruction and societal regression are the conservatives, so it’s important that if they are allowed on any platform that their viewpoints are moderated. At least until they can stop flirting with fascism and lethal policies like remigration.
Yeah Lemmy is a bit of a series of interconnected echo chambers.
Actual conservatives are welcome as far as I’m concerned. The problem is the other word for that political grouping is liberal.
Im wary of echo chambers and it’s so incredibly easy to find yourself in them nowadays. It’s always good to be around dissenting opinions and have discussions with the other side. Obviously there’s a limit with hostility and all that but assuming civility it is pretty much always better to not be completely surrounded with people that think just like you.
The constantly repeated echo chamber argument is honestly kinda just nonsense. To conservatives, anything outside of their echo chamber is one big echo chamber because it disagrees with them.
Obviously, if all you ever do is go online and talk to Marxist groups or something, that’s one thing. But really, all you need to do is be exposed to people from different backgrounds as you to break up any echo chamber effect. That’s why so many kids become more progressive in college - it’s often the first time they get out of the echo chamber of their hometown and are exposed to kids who don’t look like them and grew up under different circumstances. If you’re on Lemmy, odds are pretty good that you’re exposed to minorities and other people with different backgrounds than yours. Places like Lemmy are full of people from all over the world and from all walks of life with all kinds of different views. You don’t need to go out of your way to expose yourself to conservatives like you’re building up a tolerance for poison or something. You can get that just by checking the news or Twitter.
You make a good point but I think you are severely underestimating the amount of terminally online people around the country (and world). Obviously if you go outside of your echo chamber you will see other perspectives… I don’t think anyone would question that. The problem is many many people rarely go outside that circle and will in fact actively avoid going outside that circle. And you’re right again that lemmy is diverse in it’s userbase but to say that it’s not very heavily leaning to one side of the political spectrum and liable to become an echo chamber for many is pretty disingenuous imo. I mean just look at this thread.
Now Im not saying you are doomed to become some wacko sycophantic nutjob from an echo chamber. But you will undoubtedly only get certain sides of stories that may very well shape your points of view. It’s just something to be aware of is all.
Agree they also seem to stay in their dens or get downvoted to oblivion in general threads