Hi,
jlai.lu is the french instance of Lemmy, some user posted this thread 16 days ago : https://jlai.lu/post/11504685, and a flamewar ensued between hexbear and the french, e.g. between happybadger and their administrator here.
Since they didn’t really have any reason to defederate initially, they’re now adamant that they should defederate only because of this discussion, since it proved that every Hexbear&Lemmygrad user is agressive(, as if jlai.lu users weren’t agressive in this discussion as well).
I still find hard to believe that they could defederate on such weak basis, and it does feel like a convenient excuse, but that’s what they’re saying, ask them for confirmation if you don’t believe it either.
They also used a list of post found on /c/MeanwhileOnGrad@sh.itjust.works as if it was representative, but it hardly counts as an argument, what a stupid situation…
They’ve now pinned this post for 12 days, and the defederation with both Hexbear and Lemmygrad seems unavoidable.
I’ve known this for more than a week but didn’t care that much, yet when talking with them, and especially @Camus here, they/he said that they/he would like to talk to you. @Camus is very patient/nice, and you can look at his number of comments/posts to gauge his influence, probably their most active user(, kind of a french ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆).
Well, to be more precise, he informally asked for some excuses from Hexbear, but my post here didn’t reach them, perhaps because of “r*tard” in my username(, r*tardataire designate someone who’s late in french).
However, more than excuses in the name of others, you only have to show him that we’re not aggressive(, if you have some time, it won’t change much in the end), something very easy/natural to prove for >90% of Hexbear users(, and perhaps >70-80% of Lemmygrad 🙂, it does feel a bit more bitter/serious here, not a criticism).
They have some communities that aren’t that far apart from what could be found on Lemmygrad or Hexbear b.t.w., so it can’t really be said that they’d reject us solely based on terrorism apologia, supporting Stalin, etc.(, even if their “leftist” admin is against socialist countries because our capitalists said that they’re authoritarian).
Staying federated with a french instance would be useless for 99% of Hexbear and Lemmygrad, so if you intervene it’d mostly be on the behalf of current/future french users(, it can be nice sometimes to speak your native language without using an alt account), and perhaps also for Lemmygrad and Hexbear’s reputation on jlai.lu.
If you’re french, and/or simply nice, and want a chat with them, feel free to do so directly under the post or with @Camus.
(Kinda worth mentionning in passing that, currently, their top two posts of all time sorted by the most comments are the ones cited above about this defederation)
Also, keep in mind that this defederation is unavoidable though, if it doesn’t happen now it’ll be next year or the year after. As you know, reddit banned ChapoTrapHouse, GenZedong, etc., and we were quickly banned from lemmy.world and others, so we’ll one day be banned from other “centrist” instances such as the french one. Just like we’d also be banned/censored by our governement if our numbers grow enough to disturb/‘be a threat’.
Furthermore, Hexbear took action, and decided to defederate first without even trying to discuss more calmly. So don’t waste too much of your time either(, but please don’t go there unless you intent to speak calmly).
Thanks for reading :) !
Their admin is anti-“authoritarian”, e.g. by stating that « Marxist-leninists sullied the name of communism with their authoritarian definition », but as linked in the selftext you can find an apology of Gadhafi with nice comments on one of their most leftist community, so i’m not sure 🤷
And compared to the french subreddit they’re much more on the left, i haven’t seen any far-right user.
Their “most leftist” community is also deeply anti-communist, suffice to look at the side bar which has a label “We are not” followed by a photo of Russian workers organized with the local communist party, peacefully protesting against the result of parlementary elections rigged by Putin.
I’ve also seen a moderator of that community, who is also an admin of the instance, promote the horseshoe theory.
They are classic western leftists, anti-communist, anti-revolutionary, pro western imperialism/colonialism. The very same european marxists that were in support of the first world war, and today support the delivery of weapons to Ukraine instead of negitating for peace. I feel ashamed that it is the de-facto official french instance on lemmy, and I avoid it entirely now because the things I’ve read over there made me sick.
Edit: Example of a jlai.lu admin (who likes to call himself a leftist) who equates communists to fascists, and even calls for their elimination by drowning them in a well.
That’s an excellent point, i completely forgot about the sidebar(, which i’ve seen in the past).
There’s probably more than one thing to say about the anti-communist “libertarian” left, that opposes socialism(, not even in their countries !).
The thing is that they’re opposing socialist countries in the name of the exact same socialism, on the ground of humanism, because they’re blindingly ‘exposed to’/believing only one side of the propaganda, and on many topics(, e.g., even with the (relative )decrease of popularity of Israel, it’d still be unimaginable in France to interview a Hamas member and let them expose their own propaganda).
The uyghur genocide is another example of what their admin, and users, believes in. Two/Three people, and myself on another occasion, tried their arguments on him&them. A.f.a.i.k. it didn’t lead anywhere.
(I’m not saying that to you in particular, but )It wouldn’t be a reason for not speaking with them obviously, it’s just a disagreement, it’s mostly safe to say that every single one of us were like them at a time.
I’ve tried an argument that didn’t work back there, it was to prove that our anti-russian propaganda lied when they said that V.Putin rigged the elections, because the undeniable fact is that western surveys still continue to agree with the russian surveys about V.Putin. First link :
They could have lied. We know that surveys tell the opposite story in Venezuela(, you can switch between election on the upper-right hand corner to quickly confirm that, interestingly enough, this discrepancy between surveys decreases over the year, and now isn’t there in 2024 compared to 2012, the propaganda/control/manipulation is intensifying).
As of now, i’m confident that you won’t easily find an approval rating that does not confirm Vladimir Putin’s popularity. But since they managed to spread the doubt in Venezuela and other countries, despite the fact that anyone can do a polling, it’s possible that it changes for the next russian president.
Usually, they will end up admitting that russians, or chinese, or other populations, do love their government despite the sanctions&pressure, they don’t have much choice if every survey is unanimous, so they’ll end up saying that it’s only because of propaganda.
That the existence of these surveys end up surprising them is a proof of the presence of our own propaganda. There’s no need to tell/‘prove to’ anyone here that we’ll exaggerate(, or even create,) the flaws of countries we don’t like, and ignore(, or diminish if we can’t,) their qualities/success ; while doing the opposite for our allies.
It’d feel pointless, and almost insulting ^^, to continue. Lemmygrad and Hexbear are really apart from the rest of Lemmy/‘the Internet’.
Yeah, i.d.k. if trotskyists or anarchists would be the correct words, there’s probably some kind of “slang” for that.
Ideally, they should still continue to talk with us though, we should talk with them, and with any ideology, that’s how we become better at defending/understanding ‘our side’/‘the world’. I’m not against some safe space for those who prefer to stop being disturbed by liberals, but since i argued towards tolerance back there, and am inclined to anyway, i’d say that rejecting them because they reject us wouldn’t be as correct as exchanging with them.
Obviously, it’s not a request to anyone here, do as you want, just that i didn’t create this post(, and talk with them,) in order to trash them afterwards behind their back(, and they probably don’t realize that if it’s not ok for you to criticize/trash them, then it shouldn’t be ok for them to do the same).
I’ve linked this post to @Camus in a comment after posting it b.t.w., so they may look at your comments(, but should judge you on the frontpage anyway).
I can’t say i’ve never heard this accusation since they promised not to fight, and there’s the murder of Jean Jaurés, but i’ve never heard the opposite side, it seems like they didn’t have a choice since we’d have been invaded by the austrian emperor ?
(but i get that it was also a way to say “since a long time”)
It’d be a political suicide for a french political leader to overtly&frankly support Russia while opposing Ukraine(, we have François Asselineau but he can’t present himself anymore, and wouldn’t really be invited/known that much anyway), even if we can surprisingly find some accusations of relative/unassumed/‘risky sentences of’ support, aimed at both our far-right and far-left, who are usually speaking of making peace now, and sometimes even of the role that n.a.t.o. played in driving ukrainians apart from Russia, and of their intents towards Russia for doing so.
But yeah, there’s no disagreement on my part, we think the same thing.
And don’t feel an obligation to answer, i was mostly thinking out loud here.
I didn’t clarify it in my first comment, but I’m personally against a defederation from jlai.lu. Even though I decided not to interact anymore, I understand that some comrades would still want to and I don’t want to take that away from them.
I agree with you that we should interact with them to try to expand their views, I just know from experience that I’m way too sensitive and not emotionally strong enough from that kind of heat. I’m quickly drained and feel anxious and borderline depressed, so I prefer to abstain for my own mental health.
The comment I linked in my edit is a good example of that. If I read someone calling me a “red fascist” for being pro-lgbt, pro-minority rights, anti-imperialist, and saying that I should be killed, it makes me feel way too uncomfortable to want to interact.
Yeah that’s possible. When I looked for the source of that image in their side bar to understand what was its meaning, what I found were western articles saying that the communists were protesting a rigged election. Maybe there was another narative but I didn’t look further than that.
I heard about it in a Gabriel Rockhill lecture, who’s pretty much an expert on french leftist theory. I’m not very knowledgeable about it myself actually, I’ll try to look it up tomorrow if I can find the time.
Edit: I found the Gabriel Rockhill lecture. He actually talks about the european marxists in general supporting world war one, not the french one specifically. I’m updating my other comment to reflect it.
Thanks for your comments b.t.w.
They ended up banning me after this comment, seems like some topics shouldn’t be answered, or perhaps because they realized you were reading them on hebear, i.d.k. and w/e(, even if there was a lot of things to answer, including about neo-colonialism) 🤷
I didn’t do much with my comments honestly. As I said I would rather not interact, but when Camus quoted me to try to make a point I had to say something.
Thank you for debating them for so long, it’s crazy that you can tank so much liberal brain rot without going crazy honestly. You’re a legend man.