Probably by talking to centrists, I’ve come to a similar conclusion. Every single centrist I’ve talked to in person either refuses to use preferred pronouns, are outwardly disgusted by the idea of a trans woman, dont want them using their preferred bathroom, or are afraid of “trans indoctrination” in school (they dont want trans people mentioned or talked about in any class context). Idk, i know anecdotes arent strong evidence, but based on my experience, i don’t think they pulled this conclusion from nowhere.
To be fair to the other commenter, the people who you had interactions with are actually Bona Fide, Shonuff Nazis. They claim to be “centrists” to avoid being ostracized by decent people.
Kind of like how Republicans who aren’t filthy rich like to claim they’re “Libertarians.” No, you just don’t like be called an asshole for being an asshole. You ain’t fooling anybody.
You’re seriously going to paint every single centrist with the “transphobe” brush?
I think you’ll find that most centrists are broadly in support of trans people and that if they have any objections at all, they’ll be a few minor snagging points like mtf people in women’s sports, women’s toilets/changing rooms and the idea of making irreversible changes to the body of a child.
People like you are self defeating, sometimes it seems that you’re desperate to be a victim. You make mountains out of molehills and create divisions where there are none, but worst of all, you actively alienate people who are potentially your allies.
Edit: down votes away, until I see someone brave enough to make a counter point, I’ll just assume that the truth hurts. It’s much easier to say that you don’t like someone’s opinion than to explain why
“Broadly in support of trans people” but also forcing us to use changing rooms and toilets that also often put us in danger and lead many of us to be able to spend less time in public because the minute we need to pee someone is very likely going to yell at us, smack us (usually women) or stalk us to a secondary location (usually men) because people feel empowered to treat us all like perverts and make our safety based decisions of what the path of least resistance a question a matter of technicality…
What the heck does “broadly support” mean in this context? Ambivalence to one’s existence, quality of life issues and safety because one doesn’t want to bother isn’t support.
I don’t doubt that transphobia is real and prevalent. What I’m saying is that the claim that an extremely large and diverse demographic as strongly prejudiced against trans people isn’t only false, but entirely unhelpful to the goal of equality that trans people and their allies are fighting for.
You said centrists aren’t transphobic, and proceeded to list a bunch of transphobic views a centrist may hold. You’re kind of proving the point that they are obsessed with culture war BS. They will vote against trans rights if it makes them feel icky.
I didn’t say that it’s a view that every centrist holds or even claim that they’re more common than not, nor did I say that they’re view points exclusive to centrists.
Your comment is typical of someone that has already chosen their conclusion and will only consider evidence that supports it.
You listed them as non-transphobic, nuanced points one might hold. My point was just that they are transphobic views. I didn’t say it was a view every centrist holds, but one a centrist MAY hold.
A lot of people who would otherwise say they respect trans people, would hold any of the transphobic views you listed and gladly vote against their interests.
Maybe I got you wrong. Because I think we’re at the crux of the issue now.
Imagine you were broadly in support of trans people and full equality, but had some hesitations about the issues mentioned prior. Then a trans person or more usually a trans ally shouts “transphobe!!!”, instead of trying to educate or debate in good faith.
Such a person might now think, “well a trans person says I’m a transphobe, I thought I wasn’t but they probably know best”, they may feel dejected and a potential ally has been turned into a person that at best won’t touch the subject with a barge pole and at worst a legit transphobe.
I also feel it’s quite important to state that the term transphobe implies a strong prejudice, I don’t think a few minor sticking points implies a strong prejudice or even a minor prejudice. It can be as simple as a misunderstanding.
And the others that dont are eggs i.e. are trans people in secret but just dont know it yet aye?
This is why we cant have nice things.
Its reverse gatekeeping.
Now being serious, i know that a lot of trans people are not into this type of persecution rethoric, and i understeand why they should be protected from violence because they are a group that suffers a lot of violence.
But this type of rethoric is just asking for negative reactions from people at the very least, and theres a lot of people both trans and not trans that are on board with the reverse gatekeeping and makes the whole thing harder to defend.
I don’t hate trans people. No one with a penis is going to use the same bathroom or changing room as my daughter.
It’s not a discussion.
Despite otherwise treating trans people with respect and dignity, that’s one of my only views that conflicts with the hard left…therefore I’m a demon terf that hates trans people.
I shrug…I’m not voting R, but it makes it hard as hell to vote D.
I don’t hate trans people. No one with a penis is going to use the same bathroom or changing room as my daughter.
Laws forcing trans people to use the bathroom of their born gender will force transmen to use a woman’s room, effectively forcing people with a penis to use the same bathroom as your daughter.
Oh I know, this is far from my first rodeo. I just think it’s important to for others who may be on the fence see that they fall apart. You don’t debate for the person you’re talking to, if they care enough to comment they’re probably past the point of convincing, you debate for the people who are reading and may be unsure of their feelings.
I agree you are vile because we are not dangerous or subhuman. Also trust me you don’t want trans guys like me using the women’s restroom because I’ll clog all the toilets with my shits. Hell I’ll even prep by going to Chipotle first
You’re saying that, because you have decided that trans people are sexual predators, because you tell yourself stories where trans women are men who rape children, we should put ourselves in the legitimate danger of being a women in a men’s bathroom. The last time I was in a men’s room, a teenage boy turned around at the door because he was so sure he was in the wrong place. That was five years ago. If you had a son, you wouldn’t be comfortable with me using the same bathroom as him. If you had two children of different genders, you would be uncomfortable with me using any bathroom. Because I am clearly a woman, but you have also decided that I am a man who will hurt your daughter. Stop playing stupid games and say you don’t want trans people in public.
I’m pretty sure you’re projecting all that at this point.
Asking you to wait to use the restroom isn’t implying any of that. It’s simply decorum that has been decided upon by society. If it’s that important to you to disregard that, it does indeed call into question your judgement on more sensitive matters.
You don’t get to decide an entire group of people can’t use the fucking restroom that’s right for them just because you imagine we’re all predators. No one is after you and your ugly kids except priests
Waiting to use the restroom because you have decided that I am a sexual predator. I can’t hardly stand all the fucking respect and dignity. Literally nobody has ever been afraid of me in the bathroom with their children because I pass as a cis woman. For all you know, I’ve been in the restroom with your daughter multiple times. Same with thousands of other trans women well into transition. So how will you enforce your plan of discrimination? Are you going to do genital checks or gender interviews of every woman who enters the same bathroom as your daughter? Because that’s the only way you’re going to filter me out.
You really pay attention to other people’s genitals in the bathroom? Maybe you are the one who shouldn’t be allowed in public bathrooms. I feel uncomfortable sharing the bathroom with someone who is obssessed with genitals as you are.
Ahh yes, the least transphobic centrist. Outwardly refusing to use pronouns displayed for all to see, while having an argument about how he’s definitely not a transphobe.
Well fascists love that dichotmy: The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak."
They make the enemy seem strong so they can rally support to fight (see: genocide) them. And they make them out as weak so they can be held in contempt and shown that the fascists are truly the strongest and deserve to rule. This contradiction is not analyzed by those supporting it. And is similar to “Doublethink” from 1984.
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I have no idea how you came to this ridiculous conclusion.
Probably by talking to centrists, I’ve come to a similar conclusion. Every single centrist I’ve talked to in person either refuses to use preferred pronouns, are outwardly disgusted by the idea of a trans woman, dont want them using their preferred bathroom, or are afraid of “trans indoctrination” in school (they dont want trans people mentioned or talked about in any class context). Idk, i know anecdotes arent strong evidence, but based on my experience, i don’t think they pulled this conclusion from nowhere.
To be fair to the other commenter, the people who you had interactions with are actually Bona Fide, Shonuff Nazis. They claim to be “centrists” to avoid being ostracized by decent people.
I’m a bisexual centrist who’s been romantically involved with trans people, does that mean me too?
Kind of like how Republicans who aren’t filthy rich like to claim they’re “Libertarians.” No, you just don’t like be called an asshole for being an asshole. You ain’t fooling anybody.
That’s… …kinda cringey.
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It’s not always hate, sometimes it’s fear too!
You’re seriously going to paint every single centrist with the “transphobe” brush?
I think you’ll find that most centrists are broadly in support of trans people and that if they have any objections at all, they’ll be a few minor snagging points like mtf people in women’s sports, women’s toilets/changing rooms and the idea of making irreversible changes to the body of a child.
People like you are self defeating, sometimes it seems that you’re desperate to be a victim. You make mountains out of molehills and create divisions where there are none, but worst of all, you actively alienate people who are potentially your allies.
Edit: down votes away, until I see someone brave enough to make a counter point, I’ll just assume that the truth hurts. It’s much easier to say that you don’t like someone’s opinion than to explain why
“Broadly in support of trans people” but also forcing us to use changing rooms and toilets that also often put us in danger and lead many of us to be able to spend less time in public because the minute we need to pee someone is very likely going to yell at us, smack us (usually women) or stalk us to a secondary location (usually men) because people feel empowered to treat us all like perverts and make our safety based decisions of what the path of least resistance a question a matter of technicality…
What the heck does “broadly support” mean in this context? Ambivalence to one’s existence, quality of life issues and safety because one doesn’t want to bother isn’t support.
I don’t doubt that transphobia is real and prevalent. What I’m saying is that the claim that an extremely large and diverse demographic as strongly prejudiced against trans people isn’t only false, but entirely unhelpful to the goal of equality that trans people and their allies are fighting for.
You said centrists aren’t transphobic, and proceeded to list a bunch of transphobic views a centrist may hold. You’re kind of proving the point that they are obsessed with culture war BS. They will vote against trans rights if it makes them feel icky.
I didn’t say that it’s a view that every centrist holds or even claim that they’re more common than not, nor did I say that they’re view points exclusive to centrists.
Your comment is typical of someone that has already chosen their conclusion and will only consider evidence that supports it.
You listed them as non-transphobic, nuanced points one might hold. My point was just that they are transphobic views. I didn’t say it was a view every centrist holds, but one a centrist MAY hold.
A lot of people who would otherwise say they respect trans people, would hold any of the transphobic views you listed and gladly vote against their interests.
Maybe I got you wrong. Because I think we’re at the crux of the issue now.
Imagine you were broadly in support of trans people and full equality, but had some hesitations about the issues mentioned prior. Then a trans person or more usually a trans ally shouts “transphobe!!!”, instead of trying to educate or debate in good faith.
Such a person might now think, “well a trans person says I’m a transphobe, I thought I wasn’t but they probably know best”, they may feel dejected and a potential ally has been turned into a person that at best won’t touch the subject with a barge pole and at worst a legit transphobe.
I also feel it’s quite important to state that the term transphobe implies a strong prejudice, I don’t think a few minor sticking points implies a strong prejudice or even a minor prejudice. It can be as simple as a misunderstanding.
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And the others that dont are eggs i.e. are trans people in secret but just dont know it yet aye?
This is why we cant have nice things.
Its reverse gatekeeping.
Now being serious, i know that a lot of trans people are not into this type of persecution rethoric, and i understeand why they should be protected from violence because they are a group that suffers a lot of violence.
But this type of rethoric is just asking for negative reactions from people at the very least, and theres a lot of people both trans and not trans that are on board with the reverse gatekeeping and makes the whole thing harder to defend.
This is a retarded take
2003 called, they want their slur back
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If you use the word “idiot” you’ve done the same thing.
Ooh, and “demented”
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I don’t hate trans people. No one with a penis is going to use the same bathroom or changing room as my daughter.
It’s not a discussion.
Despite otherwise treating trans people with respect and dignity, that’s one of my only views that conflicts with the hard left…therefore I’m a demon terf that hates trans people.
I shrug…I’m not voting R, but it makes it hard as hell to vote D.
Laws forcing trans people to use the bathroom of their born gender will force transmen to use a woman’s room, effectively forcing people with a penis to use the same bathroom as your daughter.
So you’d rather a 6ft muscular Transmasc with a beard and killer pecs use it because they got a pussy? Great priorities there
Also does this imply you’re okay with post-op trans women using the same changing room?
What about post-op trans men?
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Oh I know, this is far from my first rodeo. I just think it’s important to for others who may be on the fence see that they fall apart. You don’t debate for the person you’re talking to, if they care enough to comment they’re probably past the point of convincing, you debate for the people who are reading and may be unsure of their feelings.
Post op implies a commitment and medical intervention. That does change my views.
I don’t understand any of that.
You don’t even know what trans guys are but you think trans people are somehow dangerous ie not letting trans women use the women’s restroom?
While my daughter is in there? Yes…you’re correct. Clearly that means I’m the most vile fucked up evil bastard on the planet.
I agree you are vile because we are not dangerous or subhuman. Also trust me you don’t want trans guys like me using the women’s restroom because I’ll clog all the toilets with my shits. Hell I’ll even prep by going to Chipotle first
You’re saying that, because you have decided that trans people are sexual predators, because you tell yourself stories where trans women are men who rape children, we should put ourselves in the legitimate danger of being a women in a men’s bathroom. The last time I was in a men’s room, a teenage boy turned around at the door because he was so sure he was in the wrong place. That was five years ago. If you had a son, you wouldn’t be comfortable with me using the same bathroom as him. If you had two children of different genders, you would be uncomfortable with me using any bathroom. Because I am clearly a woman, but you have also decided that I am a man who will hurt your daughter. Stop playing stupid games and say you don’t want trans people in public.
I’m pretty sure you’re projecting all that at this point.
Asking you to wait to use the restroom isn’t implying any of that. It’s simply decorum that has been decided upon by society. If it’s that important to you to disregard that, it does indeed call into question your judgement on more sensitive matters.
You don’t get to decide an entire group of people can’t use the fucking restroom that’s right for them just because you imagine we’re all predators. No one is after you and your ugly kids except priests
FYI: there have already been dicks out taking a piss in the same bathroom as your daughter. Moron.
Waiting to use the restroom because you have decided that I am a sexual predator. I can’t hardly stand all the fucking respect and dignity. Literally nobody has ever been afraid of me in the bathroom with their children because I pass as a cis woman. For all you know, I’ve been in the restroom with your daughter multiple times. Same with thousands of other trans women well into transition. So how will you enforce your plan of discrimination? Are you going to do genital checks or gender interviews of every woman who enters the same bathroom as your daughter? Because that’s the only way you’re going to filter me out.
You know what else implies a commitment and medical intervention? The hormones that are currently growing my breast in my 20s.
Let me break it down for you
Measurement of height
A person with big muscles
Someone assigned female at birth taking masculizing hormones
Facial hair
Really big pectoral muscles (not the lumps of adipose tissue known as breast)
Something your mom showed me last night
Why are you thinking about other peoples genitals in the bathroom?
You’re treating them like predators by default, you call that respect and dignity?
You really pay attention to other people’s genitals in the bathroom? Maybe you are the one who shouldn’t be allowed in public bathrooms. I feel uncomfortable sharing the bathroom with someone who is obssessed with genitals as you are.
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And the true colors are out. You hate trans people. Shut the fuck up. Die in a car fire.
Ahh yes, the least transphobic centrist. Outwardly refusing to use pronouns displayed for all to see, while having an argument about how he’s definitely not a transphobe.
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Since the gif doesn’t work: “why would I hate someone weaker than myself? I only pity them”
Well fascists love that dichotmy: The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak."
They make the enemy seem strong so they can rally support to fight (see: genocide) them. And they make them out as weak so they can be held in contempt and shown that the fascists are truly the strongest and deserve to rule. This contradiction is not analyzed by those supporting it. And is similar to “Doublethink” from 1984.
We are talking about two different groups here my friend. But I guess calling someone nazi or fascist is just easier than actually using the brain.
Far right = faschist.
Nazi is just a flavor of faschist, kinda like how all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.
Bam!
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