China forced Apple to remove any app where the developer isn’t registered in China. Meaning they asked Apple to remove 95% of the apps and games available in the App Store.
Poor iPhone users, basically they will get a “wechat handheld” and that’s it…
Apple is to blame too. They created a device that gives them so much power to make such lockdowns possible in the first place. The only proper response from Apple should be “we would really like to do it, but we can’t be sure users won’t install those apps outside of our store”.
Something like that should not be possible with universal computing devices. This is why freedom to install any OS you want on mobile devices is more important than ever.
Web is the universal open platform, and China just blocks it with a firewall 🤷♂️.
If you have universal devices Web cannot be blocked at all, you can install different browser or share websites via physical media, you can fit whole Wikipedia on SD Card. Same with overall computer networks, you can run a cable to your neighbor, unless you want to do it on a mass scale.
But I think you mean the Internet (please, don’t confuse Web and Internet), which is in fact very limited on ISPs side.
This is the difference. While with computers you can only censor what is done by them on public network (cables on the street, radio, etc.), with jail like iPhone you can also censor what is happening on the device itself. Those devices are dangerous and Apple made a big mistreatment for the world by creating iPhone like that.
You need to look at this from a practical standpoint.
The vast majority of phone apps are not local-only. They are merely the frontend to services provided by some company - e.g. a Reddit app is really about Reddit the service, a food delivery app is about the service, not the locally running code, etc.
Apple controls what users can and cannot install on devices made by them, but the web and things like PWA are an alternative that would be viable for some portion of these.
You can make a web app that can be added as an icon on the homescreen, can access the camera, location, notifications, storage, authentication (e.g. require fingerprint), etc. It still can’t do everything native apps can do, but it would be good enough for a good portion of popular apps.
But in China, that is not really possible without the government’s approval either, because China requires the same kind of registration and an ICP license for websites, otherwise things will get blocked. Which, even if you could install anything you want on a device, would effectively limit you to purely local-only apps anyway.
What’s stopping China from saying - “if you want to sell iPhones in China, disable sideloading”?
Nothing. The point is first, they shouldn’t be able to do it for devices already sold.
Second, Apple is the one developing technologies to make phones jails even without goverment looking. If Apple hadn’t done it for past years and China would force them now, then still next couple of generations of devices would be trivial to jailbrake, beacuse those locks won’t be as mature.
Makes sense.
The only thing stopping them is their own incompetency. Truly a thin wall, but as their older generations start dying off we’ll see that wall broken down.
as their older generations start dying off we’ll see that wall broken down.
We wish, but we expect the younger generations would be the same if not more strict (think Kim).
It’s like Dell selling a PC that only allows Dell approved OS systems to be installed. No Linux or Windows, only DellOS so they can get all the advertising revenue from showing ads on your pc
That behaviour is great for elderly customers I find. But I agree they shouldn’t be allowed to control the phones like that.
If Apple follows EU guidelines and opens their ecosystem to third-party app stores, like f Droid. Then this really won’t be an issue
I’m quite sure they will only allow this in EU (and maybe USA). If they do allow this in China, Regime will most probably ban every alternative app Store… if this is not already banned.
Thought and prayers to the people of china. I feel like they lost everything in 1989. Still hope they find the strength to get rid of this depressing system.
Thought and prayers to the people of china. I feel like they lost everything in 1989. Still hope they find the strength to get rid of this depressing system.
I feel the same about the US.
I don’t know if this was just a joke or you really mean it that way.
I would partially agree that there are a lot of similarities between Mao and Trump, but current situation in USA is nowhere near current situation in china.
Not sure if this would work in China, but… I have a de-Googled bootloader-locked Huawei tablet (don’t ask, it was cheap)… in the EU, but had to jump through some hoops to make it usable… and kind of did it, thanks to F-Droid, APKPure, and Gspace.
iPhones might be more tightly locked, but maybe people will find similar workarounds.
I think the issue is they’ll have to do much more work to get to those stores if they become remotely popular as a vector for bypassing censorship.
The minute people are using f-droid at scale to bypass controls and censorship, f-droid is going to get firewalled if it isn’t already.
China isn’t on the open internet. It’s a game of whack-a-mole for them, but they’re pretty good at it and throw a lot of bodies at this.
The average user won’t be jumping through the hoops required to make this work.
F-Droid has censorship resistance built in, it lets you share apps locally via bluetooth. It would be difficult, but I can imagine a bunch of protestors sharing apps, getting a mesh communication network going (like briar), all without clearnet access.
Not to mention lots of countries have “shut down internet access” in their protest playbook, so the freedom of speech, human rights, tech-bros are building the technology to work without internet.
Aren’t android phones sold in China? Because they have been able to sideload apps since forever
From what I read technically “Android” is used as the most popular smartphone OS in China. But that’s only because android is the foundation of costume Chinese OS that comes without any google services (nice) but is also highly restricted against side loading. Of course like always ways should exist to workaround those restrictions.
But to be honest getting information about all the restrictions people in china need to suffer from getting harder l with every day since they get encapsulated more and more.
They removed google but added their own state spyware. If you block the phone from phoning home (with Tracker Control, for example), the phone will still collect and save (into a user-inaccessible part of the phone) all those metrics, and eventually die, since it can’t store any more. I got 6 months out of my Chinese phone, before it filled up its metrics memory and automatically shut down permanently.
Third party app stores have zero bearing on this matter. China wants every developer to be registered. If new app stores were allowed, then those stores would have to comply and have all their developers registered.
This has nothing to do with App Store monopolies. Not even sure how the two got mixed together.
Apple makes the situation worse, by having an exclusive app store, and not allowing people to load apps directly. Without a developer key, having to renew every week, etc it’s effectively not allowing.
F Droid is currently accessible from China, I believe. Even if it isn’t, you can share Android apps via Bluetooth, nearby. It’s a far more partitionable and repairable situation with f Droid then with the Apple store.
So if iOS allows other app stores access, then that will give people more options inside of China
The number of stores are irrelevant, not sure how you keep missing this. And I’m not sure why you think just because you have more stores, it will somehow circumvent the new law.
If you add 3 more App Stores, the outcome will be most apps will be sold in all of them, I mean why wouldn’t you want your product in as many stores as possible? Again, not sure why you think more stores means anything or can be used to circumvent Chinese laws.
And China won’t forget about F Droid. If they want devs registered, then it’s going to hit their nation, not a specific company. They will all be brought under the new rule. One store, hundred stores, google, Apple, whomever.
The stores aren’t relevant, the operating system allowing apps to run that aren’t signed by an Apple certificate is the important thing
Given the choice to sideload apps, I’m sure it wouldn’t matter what store you get it from–just the fact that you can install the apps. I’m sure people can skirt developer registration.
Exactly. The store is irrelevant, registration is what China is after.
Also, you’re wrong about developers bypassing registration. That kind of shit isn’t possible in China.
So it’s the same story for Android?
Yup, but since Google is not in China, we don’t hear about Google complying, but every other Chinese app store is complying with this new law.
Yup
Unless of course the app makes API requests to its backend, which is blocked in China.
Corporate monopoly over a device (walled garden) means that a government authority has only one entity they need to “convince” to have full control over it.
We are in an Information War and I don’t see enough peer to peer friendships being made between The People of China and everyday people in USA, South America, Africa, North America, Europe, Australia, etc.
I don’t see China people on GitHub and YouTube like I did 5 years ago. Maybe the real war is power over technology and all of humanity isn’t winning. Isn’t that another way to interpret Climate Change, an education mistake on a global scale? Advertising and marketing defeating science teachers? The love for the singe-passenger automobile 9 to 5 commute job - exceeding the reality of global climate physics?
Like they say in The Orville - Dolly Parton was a hero! she basically turned out to be a great teacher, like Mr. Rogers on the true problems of childhood. 9 to 5 was kind of like showing children what your divorced single mother was having to go through. Not to say that fit the relationships in the film itself, but the office environment of white collar world. The technology of the Office Workplace and the era of typewriters as business machines. EDIT: It’s a real War: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Do6VWUxyg
A problem I have with Dolly Parton is that her partner company, Herschend Enterprises, bought the Vancouver Aquarium during the pandemic, and tried to strangle the marine rescue component of the aquarium to death.
She might be wholesome but the businesses she runs with aren’t.
This seems big. IPhones seem like they are kinda the main western luxury and status symbol in China. Now they’re not really any better than Android phones in terms of apps and being able to bypass the firewall.
Now they’re not really any better than Android phones in terms of apps and being able to bypass the firewall
What does this mean? You have been able to sideload apps on Android for a decade. How were the iPhones better in terms of apps and being able to bypass the firewall before?
I haven’t used a Chinese phone, but from what I understand, Chinese Android phones don’t come with play store and have Chinese app stores only.
Sideloading is an option, but apk sites can just be firewalled, so the ability to have the full apple apps store accessible through the firewall was pretty big.
I have a chinese friend and when I asked them to look for signal, whatsapp, or telegram, the apple app store had them all but they didn’t work after they installed it. They just got a loading screen or couldn’t sign up.
Android custom ROM scene was big back when I was rooting and playing with ROMs, as people found how to root their obscure phones by translating chinese forum posts. You don’t have to access apk sites, there are other ways to share apks. Last I heard fdroid was accessible from China as far back as 2014 until recently.
Here’s a quote from fdroid themselves.
In the Chinese app store market five to ten commonly used app stores, and yet even the largest has less than a majority market share. Most Chinese people have more than one app store on their phone, so there is no monolith there, whereas “outside of China, Apple and Google control more than 95 percent of the app store market share”.
Do some research before you perpetuate misinformation that confirms your bias.
But fuck the CCP for authoritarianism.
Fair enough, I guess they were about the same once you had a vpn working.
But yeah, it seems really bad that the luxury IPhones are getting so nerfed.
Now they’re not really any better than Android phones in terms of apps and being able to bypass the firewall.
I don’t know about the Android capabilities in China but this move makes it seem to me that IPhone has now almost become a paperweight with in-built clock, messaging/phoning and heavily restricted browser.
So seems like even though privacy is talked up so much for Apple it might only be true for western countries. Best phone for overseas might be one with an unlockable bootloader that allows you to change the OS from the stock one.
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Apple’s iPhone App Store in China is getting a whole lot more locked down.
China recently updated an existing online software regulation to lay out strict criteria for app stores and apps in the country, and after looking for ways around it, Apple has started to comply.
Now, as Apple honors the regulation, it closes a loophole that had let iPhone users in China download and, with a VPN, use apps that the government there has blocked for most or all of the country, like WhatsApp, Facebook, and YouTube.
Reuters writes that, in order for an app to qualify for an ICP license, they are “effectively” required to host their back end in China.
Apple was pushing back on the requirement, but app stores from Tencent, Huawei, and others had apparently already complied with the rule.
We asked Apple for a comment and whether the rule has affected any apps yet but did not receive a response by press time.
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VPN?
Sadly doesn’t seem like it’ll help
Last month, China announced it would require an ICP license in order for apps to be listed in all mobile app stores. Now, as Apple honors the regulation, it closes a loophole that had let iPhone users in China download and, with a VPN, use apps that the government there has blocked for most or all of the country, like WhatsApp, Facebook, and YouTube.
You need to somehow download a VPN first and then somehow punchhole ISP’s restrict firewalls.
Normal VPN doesn’t work because China firewall uses deep packet inspection that looks for signs that traffic is being tunneled and then blocks the IPs involved. On the other hand, VPN use can land users in jail as well
I look forward to a day where third party app stores are allowed to exist on iOS, should it ever come.
