Vivaqua has quit accepting cash payments - Brussels - Fedia
fedia.io
Vivaqua removed their cash machine and now refuses cash. So indeed: being able to get access to water service in #Brussels is now contingent on being accepted by the bank and agreeing to use banking services....

(message original en anglais)

traduction par Argos Translate:

Vivaqua a retiré leur machine à sous et refuse maintenant de l’argent. En effet : pouvoir accéder au service d’eau à #Bruxelles dépend désormais de l’acceptation par la banque et de l’acceptation des services bancaires.

  • @freedomPusher@sopuli.xyzOPFrançais
    2•8 months ago

    Thanks for the tip. The bank issues persist. I think it’s important to not be dependent on banks for the most essential things (food, water, shelter). So people should be protesting against Vivaqua.

    • @CamusMFrançais
      3•8 months ago

      Banque de la Poste is used by old people, so they should be able to provide services without use of smartphones.

      I guess most people are just used to the banking system and do not really care.

      • @freedomPusher@sopuli.xyzOPFrançais
        2•8 months ago

        Theoretically someone could enter Brussels for a semi-short-term (e.g. 90 days) and need water service but as a non-resident I think all banks would refuse them an account. So Vivaqua should really comply with the law¹ and accept cash.

        1. caveat: The most recent terms of service actually state that payments must be made by bank, so it’s unclear if they are breaking the law. I’ve heard that contracts can override law in Belgium which is strange. It would seem any merchant could simply make customers agree to pay electronically to circumvent the cash acceptance obligation.… or vice-versa.
        • @CamusMFrançais
          1•8 months ago

          Theoretically someone could enter Brussels for a semi-short-term (e.g. 90 days) and need water service but as a non-resident I think all banks would refuse them an account. So Vivaqua should really comply with the law¹ and accept cash.

          I guess in that case they could use a foreign bank account to pay the bills?

          • @freedomPusher@sopuli.xyzOPFrançais
            2•8 months ago

            I guess in that case they could use a foreign bank account to pay the bills?

            There are a few pitfalls with that (assuming they have an account at their origin):

            • if you make a foreign bank transaction that does not resemble the kind of purchase that’s typical of a vacationer, some bank’s AI algorithms will treat the transaction as fraudulent
            • some small non-European banks simply do not offer international transfer services which limits customers to using a card to pull cash out of the wall
            • foreign networks are not necessarily compatible with the payment machines. E.g. the US has Discover card and Asia has JPN and UnionPay. ATMs tend to support more networks than point-of-sale terminals
            • banks often fleece customers on foreign exchange rates. You will usually get screwed if you do a mixed-currency transfer (on top of getting fleeced on the transfer fee which can cost more than a month or even 3 months of water). There are some special cards which get decent rates at the ATM but not in other situations. Some travelers avoid the high fees by exchanging cash in advance before they leave. Often you can get a better exchange rate when buying the foreign currency than when buying local currency using foreign currency because consumers are less desperate when planning in advance.
              • @freedomPusher@sopuli.xyzOPFrançais
                1•8 months ago

                I appreciate the link. I didn’t know of some of those options (and a temporary visitor likely would not know either).

                Proof of income is listed. Probably not many people carry that around assuming they’re working. I personally tend to take long 90—180 day vacations when I’m between jobs because that’s the best time to do it as it does not require any request or justification to an employer. Minimum deposit could be a problem as well (banks are becoming cashless which triggers the same problem that the account is supposed to solve). Proof of work permit is obviously a non-starter for those not coming to work. And indeed when I was looking for an account one of the banks I approached demanded that.

                So ultimately it’s a really bad idea for a distributor of something as essential as water to refuse cash. There are countless pitfalls which can cause a real nightmare for people. If we were talking about a burger shop, no problem… burgers are not essential & there are always other vendors so exclusion is not tragic.

                • @CamusMFrançais
                  1•8 months ago

                  Those documents are not always needed. There are students coming to Belgium all the time, they manage it.

                  Are you opposed to the banking system as a whole, or are you looking for a bank that would accept opening a bank account for a foreigner? https://wise.com/ allows to open bank accounts without proof or income, minimum deposit or work permit.

                  • @freedomPusher@sopuli.xyzOPFrançais
                    1•8 months ago

                    How would you deposit cash on the wise.com account? I didn’t look too closely at it but I’ve noticed in general the more modern & online a bank is, the more crippled and helpless it is. I see that the app for wise is limited to Google playstore or apple, so that’s another vector for exclusion unless their web access is fully featured. (edit: #Wise is a Cloudflare site, so I would indeed run away from that as it gives a US tech giant a clear view of all traffic, usernames, passwords, etc… i’m not that trusting)

                    I’m opposed to forced banking. It’s good to have a banking system in place as a convenient option, but a disaster to be wholly dependent on banks and entirely helpless when there are technical problems (which have dozens of points of failure both on your side of the transaction as well as the merchants). I was in the grocery store and a customer’s bank card failed. Long line of people had to wait through many reattempts before in the end she had no choice but to walk out empty handed and leave all her groceries at the cashier, who then had to haul them out of the way.

                    Banks are gradually becoming less and less competent overall… some even forcing customers to blindly trust & execute closed-source software.

                    I think if I arrived in a foreign country for a 90 day vacation I would be outraged if I had to spend however many days researching and fiddling with banks just to pay for running water… time that could be better spent. Refugees will likely be harmed by the loss of cash option as well. Though it’d perhaps be poetic justice if in the end such a mess were simply left without bill payment. Hopefully Vivaqua’s move leaves them with some delinquent accounts they can’t collect on.