For example, Signal is a great app to use for private communication but if you use Signal on Windows OS then how private is the communication really? Typical Windows users aren’t good at security and Windows users also have a high amount of malware which can spy on the conversations. It was just an example for privacy starts with the hardware.

I have read a lot of people in privacy communities recommend buying older thinkpads and basically anything that Heads supports. The problem is not that they are old, the problem is they are second hand. You don’t know what the previous owner have been doing on the laptop and who might have had access to it. Remember, Windows users are typically not good at security and malware spreads commonly in Windows.

If a malware flashes a ROM then you buy their laptop and erase the hdd or ssd or buy a new hdd/ssd, then you flash coreboot to the computer. After all this the malware can still remain in the firmware and you would never know unless the malware makes itself obviously known by a ransom attack or stealing all your crypto or something.

There is nothing you can do to prevent this risk other than avoiding used computers.

Then there’s the entirely other debate if it’s even worth it for security & privacy to buy an old brick that is supported by Heads. And I’m not experienced enough on that topic yet although I’m learning about it and getting closer to being able to come to my own conclusion with the help of all the experts who have written about it.

These old bricks don’t get microcode updates for the CPU which means you will be vulnerable to many Spectre and Meltdown attacks. QubesOS can mitigate it to some degree such as by disabling hyperthreading, but QubesOS can’t mitigate it completely, only microcode updates can and these old bricks don’t receive them.

But the main point I wanted to make in this topic is about risk with used second hand laptops. Because of that I think it probably is best to buy a new unused laptop. Off the shelf for cash is best but maybe not depending on which country you live in. fed upgrade factories are a thing and some countries have it happening more than others. In that case maybe it’s better to order a laptop from one of those laptop vendors who ship it with tamper proof container, although it will be very expensive with taxes/customs but worth it.

  • Libb
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    9 days ago

    But the main point I wanted to make in this topic is about risk with used second hand laptops. Because of that I think it probably is best to buy a new unused laptop

    Why would that be better? As far as I know, malware can and have been installed on brand new laptops. Ask Lenovo and Sony, if I remember well.

    • chappedafloat@lemmy.wtfOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      9 days ago

      It sounds like you’re saying buying used second hand laptops can’t have malware from the manufacturers, only new laptops can but that is wrong.

      If you buy second hand you still have that risk of malware from manufacturers and you also have the risk of malware received because of previous owner bad opsec. So if you avoid second hand laptops then your risk is small but with second hand then its bigger risk.

      • Libb
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        9 days ago

        It sounds like you’re saying buying used second hand laptops can’t have malware from the manufacturers, only new laptops can but that is wrong.

        Not at all, I’m just saying that you’re wrong in supposing it must be safer when purchased new. Nothing else.